What constitutes intelligence?

My s.o. and I had a (thankfully brief - the phone rang) debate about what truly constitutes human intelligence. His opinion is that it’s results that matter - someone can get a perfect score on the SATs, but if for some reason they wind up as a bum on the streets, evidently they weren’t that smart after all. Conversely, he considers someone who can’t standardized test their way out of a paper bag, but who founds a successful business, to be considered of higher intelligence than the hypothetical perfect-SAT person. In short, my s.o. bases his evaluation of true intelligence on one’s ability to compete and succeed in society.

My argument was that potential constitutes intelligence - the perfect-SAT or high-IQ homeless person may have underlying problems (mental illness, substance abuse, or plain bad luck) that cause his/her life circumstances, but that doesn’t take away from his or her intelligence level. Likewise, I don’t consider an extremely intellectually gifted person who is also autistic automatically dumb just because they don’t have certain important skills that would allow them to make it financially. Conversely, someone with a lower raw intelligence who lucks or finesses into money and success isn’t automatically promoted into high intelligence in my book (see Paris Hilton).

I put this in GD because I think it’s too important of an issue to put into IMHO. I acknowledge that there are accepted medical and psychological definitions of “intelligence” that are mostly about test scores and innate ability. But I’m sure there are individual definitions from other Dopers that may be different. Just thought I’d post this and see what you all think of the issue.

1920’s style death rays and a lonely death in poverty were the end results of Nikola Tesla’s genius. It would be hard to argue against his intelligence. I think material success and intelligence are measured on mutually exclusive scales. I’ve met lots of brilliant poor people, conversely there’s GDubya.

Success is not a direct sign of intelligence. In fact I believe almost the reverse. Success is often a sign of ruthlessness. Successful people are probably more likely to have got that way by being stubbourn and calculating. Not by by pure intelligence.

To me, intelligence is quick thinking and open mindedness (open to new/alternate ideas). It has little to do with aquired knowledge. Aquired knowledge is just a bonus of quick thinking.

If we are to challange our English meaning of “intelligence” then is just as equatable to challange our English definition of “success”.

Example…

Because President Bush has achieved the ultimate status symbol of the known Universe (being President of the United States), he is obviously the most successful man on Earth, and therefore President Bush is the most intelligent man on Earth.

Some would argue.

Not me.

So A guy is considdered intelligent because he is the son of a former president and has some powerful friends?? (because IMO those are significant factors in his becoming president)

My 8 year old niece is more intelligent than George Bush.

I got perfect SATs and smart. The fact that I’m not rich doesn’t negate that. You can get rich from a lottery ticket, but it doesn’t make you smart.

(I’m not smart enuf to preview, hooever. :smack: )

Good question.

I see both arguments with faults.
Someone who does well on tests and retains a lot of knowledge on various subjects can be considered “book smart” (We all know the person who spends too much time at the library and has zero social skills). But can they achieve personal goals and success (not necessarily monetarily but what the person deems filfilling) with their knowledge?
On the other hand you have the person who is a people person, knows how to work smart, can influence others, can be goal driven and you’d consider them “business smart” or “street smart”. They are able to get what they want but they may not have a lot of knowledge on other subjects outside of what they consider important. Math, vocabulary, history, art may have no value to them (We all know the person who’s a narrow-minded arse who runs his own sucessful company).
I think a person that can hold a lot of knowlege on multiple topics and can use this knowledge to reason, debate, empathize, problem solve, communicate, create, etc. and get what they want out of life is an intelligent person.

Anthropologists ask themselves this question on occasion because it differentiates (in the more classical analyses) between people and other animals, usually other primates. Human brains are about three times the size of a chimp’s, and in the last two or so million years it’s had quite the growth spurt. Since then, our biggest triumph has been in information synthesis; i.e., putting things together, using symbols to represent other things, using what you’ve learned from one problem to solve another. How good you are at this is a measure of intelligence (old school IQ sense).

Social “intelligence” is a prime example of real-world problem solving. Let’s remember that early Homo did not take the SAT’s, at least as far as we know. Our forebears, however, were greatly concerned with coordinating successful hunting expeditions, making arrangements for who should marry whom in order to produce the maximum payoff, and other such survival-related puzzles. Modern people who live in traditional societies may not have “leaders” in the sense that we think of them, i.e., a guy who tells other guys what to do, but there may be a sensible individual who knows everyone in the village and who can, without stepping on toes, help things run smoothly by employing a non-huffy attitude and a little clever manipulativeness. The huffy ones get smacked down. For fun, read “Christmas in the Kalahari” for an example of how this can happen.

Times have changed of course. Now we send our kids off to school, in theory at least to arm them for future problems, and to equip them for reality and survival in context. School, and tests in school, are designed to measure their “potential” in this context. Sure, a kid who does well throughout school may have potential, but it’s useless and not precisely “intelligence” unless he can put it to use to support himself later. It’s like having a hammer but nothing to build. It’s not synthetic, because he didn’t use his skills to help him cope with his environment.

The kids who were leaders, getting by on C’s while dominating their cliques with an air of effortless, laid-back contentment, may well have more intelligence in the early Homo sense than the Mathlete. And if they were attractive (and they usually were), so much the better. Intelligence is what helps humans to survive, and what helps humans to survive (lets get real) are social skills in their appropriate cultural context, not mathematical prowess except in some pretty unusual situations, like Western culture. Attractive individuals who have got those social skills nailed down are better equipped to land jobs, to keep those jobs through manipulation of their coworkers, boss or underlings, and more likely to slip through the radar that filters out those who are not “One Of Us” and get admitted as one of the crowd, where they can affect policy, institute rules, and gain status, money and power. It enables them to score with the best mates and pass on their “winner” culture to their kids. That’s intelligent synthesis - using your native gifts to an end that will help you survive.

We live in a peculiar society that worships “school ability”. But school is just practice. Mathletes are intelligent if they can put their prowess to use in the marketplace and better survive. But not if they end up taking tickets at Loews because they’re so depressed about being pimply and disliked.

Did you know, that by your definition Jesus would not be intelligent. Intelligence=Survivability
Are you saying Jesus is dumb?

:eek:

It seems obvious just from these few posts that there are different kinds of intelligence. Some people have specific kinds of intelligence while not having others. To say the least I’m not a fan, but George W. Bush can’t possibly be as big a fool as he sometimes appears. People who actually know him say otherwise, anyway. You might say that he lacks verbal intelligence, though, since he doesn’t express himself well (at least when a TV camera is on).

To use myself as an example: I’m articulate, my vocabulary and language skills are good - they’d better be, I’ve been writing forever and I’m going to do it for a living - and I have a very good memory and I’m excellent with trivia. All of those are good things for giving people the impression that you’re smart. (Which isn’t to say that I’m not. ;)) Often, people decide you’re intelligent if they think you know a lot of stuff, so that helps. Other kinds of intelligence, such as musical intelligence, are less obvious. On a more superficial level, Bush’s skills are not obvious, but I’ve heard he’s very sharp when it comes to reading people. And personally, I’d be totally fucked in the business world because I just don’t work that way.

Now that I think about it, I realize I’m pretty much reiterating the theory of the Seven Intelligences, which I first heard about in a Psych class a few years ago. It seems to me that looking at intelligence that way is more useful than just trying to assign people some kind of raw intelligence. Let’s Google… it’s Howard Gardner’s theory, and his intelligences are linguistic, logical-mathematical, bodily-kinesthetic, spatial, musical, interpersonal, and intrapersonal.

Whether that theory is right or not, I think it’s very limiting to interpret intelligence only in terms of results.

From my readings and introspection, there is a singular nature to intelligence. The different specializations (music, people, math…etc) are simply manifestations brought on by selective and favored focus. In other words, someone who displays musical intelligence and not mathematical intelligence, is able to intuitively manipulate musical elements and structures, but hasn’t recognised the metaphors (isomorphisms) that can be carried over from music and applied to mathematics. Fundamental mental structures and operations are identical across all human activity. The limitation most people have, is realizing and adopting the correct specific framework(“mental space”) for a certain discipline or activity, onto which the topological mapping can be adequately applied.

Those who are interested in reading about the formal taxonomy of this analysis (which is neither unique nor privileged to me) should read this book, which details the theory of conceptual blending. Additionally, I’ve posted many links to online resources on blending, at Wikipedia.

Finally, coming to the OP’s title question, base raw intelligence is a measure of the proficiency in setting up, manipulating and blending mental spaces. Specific manifestations of intelligence, are similarly, measures of proficiency as applicable to those particular domains.

Although I am being slightly facetious here. It does bring to point a flaw in the “Darwinist” theory of intelligence. Often, extreme intelligence- revolutionary, paradigm shift intelligence (genius)- seems to be counter intuitive to an individual’s survival. What’s the theory here? Does this kind of specialized intelligence leave no room for the formation or blending of other survival oriented social intelligences? Are these individuals intrinsically less intelligent because of their ineptitude at survival oriented intelligence?
This kind of specialized, revolutionary intelligence in an individual often increases the survivability of the species as a whole through the introduction of new paradigms in thought but often at the expense of their own individual survivability. Why is that? Are they aberrations? Are they sacrificial offerings for the greater good?

devilsknew:

The mechanics of evolution give not a swinging damn about a greater good.
As well, they give not a rat’s damn about a greater bad. They just be.

The only thing autotelic about humankind is how closely it approximates the reason for it’s existence. We don’t know fully what that is, but we can sense through introspection that which it is not.

And it won’t hurt to join the Baptist Church. Or become a Zen-Buddhist.
But to isolate yourself from the collective journey of the community of man by becoming a neo-atheist is to die as uselessly as a inert stone on the moon.

(Not our moon, a moon on the other side of the Universe.)

I was speaking figuratively. Evolution’s imperative is to survive through adaptation, in this case the “greater good” would appear to be the survival and adaptation of a species at the expense of an individual. Specifically, a mutation that seems to have a survivability factor inversely proportionate to the survivability factor it introduces to the species as a whole.

Hey, I believe in Neo! He saved Zion, man! That guy is Buddha and Jesus Christ all rolled into one!

The differences in individual human intelligence is more difficult to ascertain. However, in terms of human intelligence, it is the use of language. One of the great debates that continues today is if the Neanderthals used language. It appears that this would help establish their level of intelligence.

Potential doesn’t constitute intelligence.

Case in point: In our honors English class we had to take an IQ test. Obivously, being honors students and therefore inherently competitive, we shared our results. The person with the highest grade out of all the classes is someone that that shocked everybody. Why? Because he is generally considered to be the ‘stupid one’.

Having a 128 IQ does not necessarily make you more intelligent than someone with say a 116 IQ. It’s what you do with it that counts.

True intelligence requires application and work ethic.

Stupidity, like intelligence gets passed on. If you (like Jesus) failed to produce offspring, then smart and dumb don’t much matter. Anyway, perhaps I should have made myself clearer to those without a background in biology - survival in terms of living long enough to reproduce is all the survival you need. I mean, we all end up dead in the end.

Great intelligence need not necessarily be seen as counterintuitive to survival. Geniuses crop up occasionally, sometimes they live to reproduce (success) and sometimes they don’t. Einstein was an affable guy who got along with lots of people. Darwin himself was certainly popular in British high society.

What I was trying to point out is that the math genuis who lived 30,000 years ago might not have been thought of as much different from anyone else. I can’t think how it would have been an active disadvantage to have been good at math, and maybe it did him some good, but being a good hunter may have been more important. Ditto for musical talent. I only say this because archaeological/paleontological digs from this time period have included both musical instruments and hunting weapons, but not much evidence of number manipulation. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t going on, just that we haven’t found evidence of it yet (I’m not holding my breath waiting for the Pythagorean Theorem to show up chipped into a stone tablet) . On the other hand, people in traditional societies don’t have much use for “higher” math. They can get by with simple counting, adding, etc. There’s no reason to believe it would have been much more useful to the rest of the hunter-gatherers, which (let’s recall) we all were until maybe 5000 years ago.

Our interpretation of phenomena from within the sphere of Western culture is usually pretty narrow. We live in an “artificial society”, valuing things that were once shruggables, and devaluing things that were once considered very desirable. “Genius” as we think of it is a wonderful thing, and no doubt some of our ancestors were brilliant people, but an Einstein 30,000 years ago would not necessarily have been any better off evolutionarily speaking- or better thought-of - than any of his friends and neighbors.

Maybe intelligence, as we think of it in anthropomorphic terms, doesn’t really exist outside of an artificial social context. It is a subjective measurement based on what we value or consider useful as a society at a given point in time.
What if intelligence is not contained within us but instead arises in the external? Our only contribution to intelligence may be an individual and thereby novel reaction to a sapientia externae (external intelligence), all minds having no advantage in “intelligence” over another, rather intelligence with an external locus superimposing us with the appearence of intelligence.

I believe intelligence is an illusion of our own minds based on comparative terms and judgement. i.e.-If you can make me laugh then you’re a genius! :smiley:

If Bush is the most intelligent man on Earth, then Clinton must be a god who walks among men. Like Bush he achieved an Ivy League education (with a much better GPA than Bush), successfully dodged the draft, and aquired “the ultimate status symbol” though unlike Bush he did it without the benefit of a rich, presidential or powerful father (or any father at all, for that matter). Once there he survived two terms against a hostile Congress and an impeachment and deflected scandals like the Enterprise with full force fields while his most vociferous and “moral” opponents (e.g. Gingrich, Livingston) crashed and burned around him, and he did all this while shagging like a 1970s carpet factory.