BritDopers, are you upset with the Obamas?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I hear that the British press and some British people are very upset with

  1. how they perceive Gordon Brown was snubbed during his visit.

Apparently he didn’t get enough time with President Obama and British papers are saying it’s because Obama was “too tired.”

The American press barely mentioned Brown’s visit (though that’s hardly President Obama’s fault. It shows more that our press sucks.)

Explanations to my mind. President Obama’s kind of busy right now. No wonder he’s tired. They did meet and talk though.

Plus, our press sucks.
2) President Obama’s gift to Prime Minister Brown was insulting.

PM Brown gave President Obama a nice pen holder made from wood from the sister ship of the Resolute, plus a set of books about Winston Churchill. That’s from memory but I think it’s right. President Obama gave PM Brown a set of American DVDs. (the American Film Institute Top 25 American movies)

Explanation to my mind: As a movie lover, I think it’s cool. Value-wise, monetarily, there’s no comparison, but rather than see it as being tacky, I see it as being an innovative way to save the government money. How much has our government spent over the decades in expensive gifts for leaders of other nations? I absolutely love Prime Minister Brown’s gifts, they were very thoughtful and wonderful, but I can’t condemn the gift of DVDs. Most of them are important American movies and do represent us well. Plus, how was President Obama to know that he was going to receive such expensive and historically-valuable gifts from PM Brown?
2) Mrs. Obama’s gift to Mrs. Brown was insulting.

Mrs. Brown gave Malia and Sasha clothes from some place called “Topshop” which is supposedly a trendy and important shop in London. Mrs. Obama gave Mrs. Brown’s two sons models of Marine One.

Well, clothing vs. a cool model? I don’t get the outrage here. They’re both nice gifts.
3) President Obama supposedly dissed Winston Churchill.

This wasn’t during the visit, but it’s being brought up now. There was a bust of Churchill in the Oval Office that was on loan to the White House from the British government. Soon after he took office, President Obama had the bust removed and sent it to the British embassy.

One explanation for that is that Churchill isn’t the icon here like he is in England. Another (I have no cite) is that Churchill was Prime Minister when (I’m working from memory here) British forces quelled an uprising in Kenya and among those imprisoned and tortured was President Obama’s grandfather, so naturally Obama would have a slightly different take on Churchill.

It was on loan, after all, it wasn’t a gift from the British government or people. I don’t see the problem here.
Here’s a snarkier cite for some of the above, though he doesn’t mention Obama’s grandfather. I read that the other day and can’t re-find the link.

So, is this really the big deal that it’s being made out to be? BritDopers, what do you think and what are you hearing from others?

I have to say I’m kinda worried. President and Mrs. Obama are visiting London next month, and from the outrage I’m hearing, I have these visions that they’re going to be booed everywhere they go and have tomatoes thrown at them. Is it really that bad over there?

2

This is the first I have heard of this “insult”. You can put me on the keeping my tomatoes list.

3

Meh. Its the Daily Mail and the Torygraph claiming to be all insulted. I’d take what they say with a rather large pinch of salt and bias…

4

There was some mention of it in the media at the time. Obama met Brown for a half hour meeting followed by a one hour “working lunch” and refused to do a joint press conference.

Brown’s big message at the moment is that the world needs to work together to overcome the economic crisis whereas Obama seems to be flirting with protectionism. Thus maybe Obama snubbed Brown because they’re not quite in agreement. The argument that Obama was pushed for time is slightly undermined by the fact that he had time to meet the Cub Scouts of America later the same day.

It won’t affect any future Obama visit to London. He’s quite popular in the UK and most people didn’t even notice the news item about the supposed snub and those that did have probably forgotten about it by now. Even if they haven’t forgotten about it, they’re not going to throw tomatoes at him, Brown is pretty unpopular and will almost certainly lose the next election. This, incidentally, could be one reason why Obama doesn’t want to be seen to be too close to Brown - he’ll probably be working with the Conservative leader David Cameron after the next election.

5

I’ve heard it only very factually reported on Radio 4, a station I trust to give me the facts rather than the spin. I thought the PM’s and The Prez’s exchange of gifts a little one-sided when I heard it, then I instantly didn’t care.

On reflection, I don’t think it’s that meaningful. Brown’s getting hella bad press here at the moment due to the global finance situation and some of the shocking behaviour by our banking guys, by which I mean Fred Goodwin, so it doesn’t surprise me that it is being reported negatively towards Brown. The way I’ve seen it covered in the biased press depicts Brown as scrabbling to hold on the coat-tails of ‘the man who can save us all’, and there’s been some debate about the difference in the Brown/Obama relationship as compared to the Blair/Bush relationship. Less bumlicky, I believe.

But this is the opinion of someone who has only in the last 2 months begun listening to Radio 4 as opposed to Kiss FM, in an attempt to learn something, and to be honest the learning is a slow process.

The gifts for the kiddies seems totally reasonable. Topshop is overpriced toss, sez I. Marine One toys sound way cooler.

I wouldn’t worry about the Obamas being booed. I suspect there’ll be a huge number of people who want to just see the Obamas, just catch a glimpse. A lot of the papers see Shelley O as a style icon, and just about everyone I know sees Mr Obama as proof you can do anything you put your mind to.

6

The papers complaining are just looking for an angle.

I promise you, when the Obamas visit, the streets will be absolutely thronged with fans, Clinton-stylee, or perhaps even more than during Clinton’s era.

I did hear about the paucity of time between Brown and Obama, but I see it more as a reflection of Obama taking a more realistic stance about the UK’s position in the world. I’m enjoying a certain amount of Schadenfreude about it, mainly because I think Brown is a twat.

Having said that, the Churchill return seems a bit odd. A bit of symbolism going on there.

7

Not reported as a huge deal here as others have said. Obama’s gift is truly fatuous if you think about it in terms of a real gift, but I’m not sure it’s like that. Visiting heads of state must exchange all sorts of bollocks every other month and probably don’t give it a second look.

8

Not odd really. Churchill, a (foreign) wartime leader, representing an “us against the world” era. Obama wants to present a more internationalist image, one of “the war is over”.

Plus he wants to hearken back to Abe Lincoln, american hero. I think he’s quite nationalistic on the quiet - or at least wants to appeal to the nationalistic vote in order to get his policies through.

9

Thank you all for your thoughts. It’s all fascinating to me, and I feel a bit better now and will brush off the visions of angry protests and vegetables hurtled towards the motorcade.

“Shelly O”? I love it!

10

Brown is a lame-duck Prime Minister, who is almost certain to lose the next election.

He also represents the political class that f*cked up the world economy, so I can why Obama would want to keep some distance.

If/when David Cameron finds his way to No. 10 I would expect Obama to be a pit more pally.

11

I have credited myself with that. If you start seeing her referred to as Shelly O, that’s mine.

Yeah it’s possible that I saw it in a magazine or online or whatever, I don’t have a good memory, but for now, mine.

12

One or two newspapers tried to make this into a big story, but otherwise there hasn’t been much coverage or interest, and I don’t hear anyone talking about it.

The fact is, Brown is deeply unpopular. Under normal circumstances, he’d enjoy some support among Labour voters (obviously) and be disliked by the rest. But at the moment even lifelong Labour supporters are counting the days until he loses the next election. The party in general is seen as hopelessly adrift, and even people who normally have only a notional interest in politics are getting concerned about ministerial corruption, government secrecy and the ‘police state by stealth’ approach that seems to be Labour’s hallmark. Plus Brown is widely perceived to have been involved in all the deregulation and slack supervision that allowed the financial crisis to happen in the first place.

Obama may not have given Brown much time, but it was a lot more time than most Brits would have given him. Most of us wouldn’t even get up to answer the door if Brown came knocking. He’s useless and his days are numbered.

13

All the political information/opinion about Brown is welcomed. I had no idea how Brown was seen in England, so it’s interesting. Yeah, that says more about my status as an ignorant American, but there you have it.

So I take it that “conservative” isn’t the dirty word over there that it is here? (well, except among conservatives, who still think that they’re relevant) Otherwise, why would the two get along? Is an English conservative more like our moderate (read: sane) Republicans? Or what?

I’m not totally out of it. I did hear that the Cameron’s young son died recently. How heartbreaking. My condolences to them.

14

Yes. The real insult is the return of the bust of Churchill. Brown’s a blunderer and bottler and Obama was more than generous with his time. Unfortunately, we’re stuck with Brown for the next 15 months. But be very afraid: next up is David Cameron.

15

Theoretically Conservative = Republican and Labour = Democrat. Actually, it’s more like Conservative = mainstream Democrat and Labour = far left Democrat. An American Republican would be on the far right of the Conservative party.

16

Thanks Quartz. Why is Cameron scary?

17

from what i understand the return of the bust was the dust up. perhaps that is why the set of books on churchill. the pressies not so much.

the pen from resolute’s sister ship is interesting… goes nicely with the resolute desk. (strangely i just finished 2 books that deal with the northwest passage, one fiction, one non.)

is the pm a movie fan? if so that could be why the dvds.

as far as the kidlet’s gifts… i would prefer a model of marine one over clothes any day!

18

Labour have lost some crucial by-elections by big margins in the last couple of years. The percentage swings indicate that it would be a big election victory for the conservatives if there was an election now. Can’t remember the exact figures but in one by-election the swing was twice that needed to win a general election. Huge. Only had that happen twice since the war or something.

Things might change before the next election but it would require a massive swing the other way all of a sudden and there’s no particular reason to expect that.

Not really. If I was a new president I wouldn’t want Churchill’s disembodied head glaring at me with his fixed stare and jowly chops from over the Iranian Ambassador’s shoulder.

I’d want my own gear in there thanks. Churchill’s disembodied head would freak me out.

He’s not, seems a nice guy. Hasn’t done or said anything noticeably extreme or worrying. You won’t notice the difference.

19

Thanks again.

I’ve heard that Prime Minister Brown is not known to be a movie buff, and that he’s blind in one eye, but perhaps Mrs. Brown and/or the kids will appreciate the films.

I’d imagine that the DVDs are a personal gift that would go with the Browns when they leave Downing Street, whereas the pen holder and Churchill books (which I heard were first editions!) would stay at the White House for future presidents to use and peruse if they wish. I’d guess that the personal gift of clothes and the models would go to charity when the kids are too old to wear/play with them.

If the Churchill bust were a gift from the British government or British people, I could see the outrage. In that case, the proper thing would be to move it to a different part of the White House. Since it was a loan, made from Blair to Bush, I can’t see it as improper to give it back. It wasn’t ours to keep. How could it be an insult?

And besides, would we expect the Prime Minister to keep a bust of Washington, Jefferson or Lincoln in his office? I can’t even imagine us loaning a bust of one of them in the first place. Why would we? Sorry, I know Churchill is an icon and there are many things I admire about him, but I don’t get why the bust was even loaned to Bush/The White House in the first place, or why it was put in the Oval Office. That Bush/Blair buttlickery thing?

20

Not an insult. We’ve a reasonably realistic view of what level of coverage is to be expected.

The DVD set did seem to me as, well, gauche. There are precidents for this sort of exchange and while some of the gifts are often fairly mundane - clothing and the like - this appeared to me oddly too much like something someone would give as a Xmas present. Obama could have given him some HMV vouchers and let Gordon chose what DVD’s he wanted.

I may be showing my age, but this description of Topshop strikes me as funny.

Churchill is actually more of an icon in the US than here. His status as the national hero of 1940-5 is rather similar on both sides of the Atlantic, with the difference that there’s always been the broader range of opinions about him in the UK. Even his most uncritical supporters here will at least be aware of the contrary opinions expressed about his whole career. Remember that we’re the country who threw him out of office in 1945.
As for the bust, I seem to recall some murmurings in the British press when it was installed that this was Bush inappropriately appropriating Churchillian gravitas. The prevailing mood in Britain was not to see a parallel between Bush’s predicament and Churchill’s.
Complaining about the removal makes for good copy. Now.