BSA, Inc. is under federal investigation for allegedly creating “phantom units” with fictional boys as a way to suck more money out of various charitable troughs.
And this cite indicates the BSA is also under investigation in Georgia and Texas.
What’s really annoying about this is that the thieves aren’t even trying. Come on, 20 kids all named “Doe”? How hard is it to make up a wider variety of phony names for your thievery? Somebody didn’t get their Identity Theft merit badge…
Geez, are they borrowing recruiters from the Ohio Democratic Party?
Hey, BSA, I’ve got a better idea. How’s about letting in teh gays and atheists? Then the parents who want their child to socialize with a normal cross-section of Americans will sign their kids back up and you can get all the United Way loot you want (assuming management isn’t back to mismanaging it).
they pay people to get people to join the Boy Scouts? Geeze. Now I feel even better about not letting my kids join until (if) they reverse their stances on sexuality and religious belief.
Sorry, gays and athiests are EVIL and will teach your children all the wrong things. We need good upstanding Christians to teach children how to defraud charities.
Oh, they’re real, all right. They’re “black ops.”
I look at my Eagle regalia and shake my head.
Hey, I’m PROUD to have earned Eagle! Lots of hard work went into that.
Now the politics of Scouting are shameful.
And now…THIS!
Yeesh.
It’s a damned shame the current leadership of the Scouts don’t feel it applies to them.
Diet coke on the monitor! You bastard!
…and I thought this was going to be about the Business Software Alliance…
This is just a troop leader though, right, and not the whole organization?
a) The title is misleading. As near as I can tell from the article, It’s claimed that 20 people (maybe) were fraudulently added to the rolls in some cousins-fucking-cousins town. The rest of the article is speculation and hyperbole.
b) Where I come from anyway, scouts is primarily (exclusively to the best of my knowledge) funded by members. Maybe elsewhere they lean on charities; I don’t know.
c) Just because somebody somewhere on high in BSA doesn’t like gays and athiests doesn’t mean the whole organization is corrupt. Yes, it’s an embarassment to rational members such as myself and many others. But there are many good and decent things that come from scouting. At the ground level, there’s no talk of exclusion. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Or at least, it is in my corner of the world. In fact, I’m an athiest, and a leader in the organization.
In fairness to the BSA, it was a member of the organization who revealed the theft. That indicates to me that this is more likely an isolated crime, and not endemic to the whole organization.
As was my father. I took a lot of good things from Scouting. While I’m dissappointed in the stances the current leadership has taken in the last couple of years, I still intend to look for a Good Cub Scout pack and troop for Fang when he’s old enough.
The second cite indicates that the investigation is ongoing in three states, not one small town.
It’s not whether they “lean” on charities. It’s that they receive charitable donations and one or more units are allegedly seeking to get more than they’re entitled to through fraud.
First, I would suggest that you not let too many people involved in Scouting know that you’re an atheist. All it takes is one person to send a report to national and you will be stripped of your membership. And while it is true that Scouting has many positive aspects, it fought all the way to the Supreme Court to preserve its right to exclude gay people on the grounds that we are immoral categorically. Whatever else comes out of Scouting, that is enough IMHO to support calling BSA corrupt. And frankly, I’m thoroughly sick of people defending corruption on the grounds that some good comes out of the corruption.
Otto wrote
And that’s wrong and should be investigated. But the cites call out claims of very small problems and insinuation of much larger fraud.
I don’t wear my beliefs on my sleeve, and I have no interest in converting those who believe differently than me. But when I’m asked, I’m happy to tell people where my thoughts lie. I know of other atheists in the organization.
Well, here’s the thing. BSA is an extremely loosely-coupled organization. It isn’t like the catholic church or the U.S. Army, where someone at the top makes decisions which are rigorously, mechanically and absolutely passed down the chain. I run my cub scout den (approx 10 boys) the way I and the other parents see fit. We receive no mandates, direction or even suggestions from anyone anywhere. There are 5 dens in our pack, which is attached to the elementary school the boys attend, and this too is run the way we the parents see fit. Each pack is pretty much completely isolated from every other pack, except for occasional social contacts between parents amongst packs and some rare potential meetings between packs. In my several years as a BSA leader, I’ve never formally met anyone outside our pack (although I’ve met many informally.)
Other than suggested activities (like camping or building crafts or what have you, nothing implying exclusion or forced religious beliefs), there is nothing we get guidence-wise from outside our pack.
Yes, I’m embarassed about the official stance of BSA on gays and atheists. But that’s just not what is happening inside my BSA world. at all. And to the best of my knowledge it’s not what’s happening in most of the BSA world.
OK, seriously not trying to be snarky here, but what you’re saying is that you know that the Scouts categorically exclude atheists as official policy, yet you break that rule without an apparent second thought, know of others who break the rule and that a number of others aid and abet you in breaking the rules. You lie every time you repeat the oath to do your duty to God. You’re teaching your den by example that if you disagree with a rule, you should feel free to break it, lie about it and expect other people to lie on your behalf. And the reason you do this is because of national policy. How is this not an example of a fundamental corruption of the organization?
And frankly, just because it’s not happening in your particular corner of the scouting world doesn’t mean it’s not happening. To offer my own anecdote, a close friend of mine from college, an Eagle Scout who had worked for his council’s camp for years, came out in an extremely heartfelt and moving letter to the local executive. The response was a three-sentence letter revoking his membership and telling him he was immoral. The decade-plus relationship between my friend and the Scouts was dismissed in three sentences and an insult. The organization was poorer for his absence and the lives of the Scouts he would have continued to help over the years suffered. Meanwhile, before I came out publicly as either gay or atheist, I worked at a camp for one summer. The ostensibly heterosexual believers were almost to a man rude, nasty worthless wastes of space, yet they were welcomed with open arms and paid for their worthlessness. Any organization who would throw away a dedicated committed member for being gay while coddling the type of trash I worked with is, if not corrupt, stupid.
My take on this is simple. As long as the bulk of the BSA has this attitude, things won’t change. Your little corner of the BSA may be the most gay and atheist friendly place on earth, most of the local BSA organizations may be the most gay and atheist friendly places on earth, but as long as the attitude towards the national policy of discrimination is “Well, that’s unfortunate, but we don’t act that way here, and we’re doing a lot of good for the boys”, the bigotry will continue, becoming more and more entrenched. If you want to do good then DO GOOD and oppose the national council’s bigotry. You may get tossed out. The next dozen local chapters that take a stand for what’s right may get tossed out, but there is no way ALL of the local troops will be thrown out. I severed my ties with the Scouts, in spite of all the good times I had as a youth, and in spite of how much my son enjoyed it, because there is no way I could stand up and repeat an oath promising “To keep myself…morally straight.” while supporting an organization whose stated policies of bigotry are so blatantly immoral without being the rankest type of hypocrite.
Otto wrote
As I say, what you see outside is not what I see inside. I’ve never signed anything swearing I’m not an atheist. I’ve never sworn a formal pledge that I’m not. I’ve never been asked in any way about the subject. It’s never been joked about in informal circles. I’ve never - never, not even once - heard someone inside BSA even mention gays or atheists. Never.
Yes, I’m aware there is a rule and I’m breaking it, but I feel it’s a bad rule and I feel good breaking it. I feel moral breaking this particular rule.
As far as repeating an oath to do my duty to God, I also say the pledge of allegiance in various places, such as my sons classroom with the class when I’m there. I don’t happen to believe that we are a nation under God, but I say it anyway. I also am happy to spend money marked “In God we trust”, when in fact I don’t. I don’t see a problem with this. Further, I don’t feel a need to remove the word “God” from our money, our pledge or our motto.
That’s a moving story. I’m sorry for your friend and as I’ve said, I’m embarassed by the official policy of BSA. I can tell you with some certainty that had your friend sent his letter to me or other scouting leaders I know, the results would’ve been different. At least in the sense that I wouldn’t have insulted him or thrown him out. I can’t speak for what others far away may have done.
The national BSA organization is divided by council, with each council in most cases covering a small geographic area, such as a few counties in size. Legally, each council is a separate corporation, and there is very little to no coordination between them. There also is little to no national coordination, beyond membership requirements (eligibility), rank requirements and safety regulations. I know because I work for the Boy Scouts. I will post again with more info after I poke around a little. I have heard rumors of this sort of thing before in neighboring councils.
WeirdDave, you are one of the coolest people on the boards. Too bad you’re claimed already; GingerOfTheNorth is a lucky woman.