I’m intending this thread for the experienced martial artist. In particular, it would be interesting to hear from : a) experienced instructors or b) those who have trained in the region of origin for their style, i.e. esp. Asia.
#1) Is Budo obtainable by the modern martial artist? If not, why not.
#2) If you answer yes to #1, Is Budo obtainable by the modern martial artist training away from the region of origin for their style?
#3) Is Budo being lost even in the places where various martial arts originated? If so, why?
#4) What is Budo in your eyes and how to you obtain it? What are the key elements to obtaining Budo?
#5) Is Budo all an illusion and never really existed in the first place?
2). Yes. I practice Taos Kung Fu, a Persian style of martial arts, here in Florida and feel that I am always approaching Budo. However, mine is a first generation style and I’ve been in pretty much daily contact with the style’s founder for the past five years. I think that Budo is obtainable under the tutulage of any TRUE master (NOT the 8 million hacks that set up shop and offer 30-day black belts).
3). I belive that this is the case. Look at the Shaolin Temple. Many of the forms practiced there today are not the traditional combat forms, but are compeditive Wushu forms. While Wushu is a wonderful sport, it is NOT a martial art. When the meaning behind the form is lost, the Budo is lost as well.
4). I can only quote the Kensei, Miyamoto Musashi:
Thank you for the answer Shiva. Now, this is IMHO and not great debates, so what you have expressed is your heartfelt opinion; however,
re: 4) You cheated. You told me what Musashi, who is not by any stretch a modern martial artist, thought was Budo and how to attain it. You are not Musashi. What is Budo in your eyes?
Even taking Musashi words as your answer how do you mesh that with training with passion. Musashi is saying to be steadfast. Keep training and you will get there. This philosophy is not far from my heart. In Kyokushin, my former style, we don’t say “Osu!” for nothing. It means literally to push ahead or endure, but is passion req’d for that? I personally don’t think so.
re 3) Are you saying then that the Shaolin are not training passionately? Why not? Why do you think style counts? What difference does it make for Budo whether it is original Shaolin Kung Fu or Wushu? Why does Wushu result in loss of Budo?
re 2) What is a true master? I’ve trained with lots of different people, although I consider Sosai Oyama to be my teacher. Is he a true master?
I’ve taught thousands of students in the past 2+ decades. Am I a “true” master? Am I teaching Budo or is it lost to me and to the rest of us? Did it ever exist?
Again, I appreciate your reply. I’m not attacking it, but seeking more clarity for what you mean and think. Thank you.
re #5) Do you think Musashi would say that “Budo is what you make it to be” if asked if Budo exists? Do I take it from your reply that you think Budo is … what … I’m not even sure what that means. If there is a way to it, whether it be to be steadfast or passionate, follow this style or that, what is it that you trying to attain? Is it fair to say that Budo is that which wins lots of trophies and say that somebody who attains that has found Budo? Is it fair to say that Budo is that which wins fights and somebody who wins fights has attained Budo? If it is what we make it to be then we’ve all attained it already so then I submit that it is, in fact, nothing or everything, but in any event would be meaningless.
re re 3). If one is training in modern wushu, one isn’t really doing martial arts. Wushu is a dance devoid of any true application, a mockery of real kung fu. While a wushu performer may devote his/her entire life to the practice, and attainsignifigant results, what they attain is quite different from what we attain. Without meaning, forms are empty.
re re 2). A touchy question. In my opinion, a true master is one who lives their style. Someone who knows every intricacy, every detail. Someone for whom technique flows as easily as breath. While skill in combat can be indicative, it is not necessarily a sign (I would harldy call Roy Jones Jr. a master).
re re 4). I think that in truth, Budo defies exact defining. It is the martial artist’s Dao; our path and goal. Through perseverence and understanding (of one’s own style) the path becomes clear. My idea of Budo is that it is enlightenment for the martial artist.
Of course it is. The world hasn’t changed that much.
I’m not sure why you think the location of the student is relevant here. People are still people.
I think it is being lost. People today don’t have the same need to fight on a daily basis that they once did, and as that need has gone away (definitely a good thing), the fighting disciplines began to suffer. It’s very difficult to train as if your life depends on it if you know that it very likely doesn’t.
The short answer is that Budo is warrior spirit. The self-discipline to train hard and to train as if your life may depend on how well you train. And when it comes time to fight, to commit yourself fully.
At best, it’s just a mindset, so you could argue that it doesn’t exist. But a person’s determination and their mindset is very real to them (and ot the people they interact with).
You told me what Musashi, who is not by any stretch a modern martial artist, thought was Budo and how to attain it. You are not Musashi. What is Budo in your eyes?