Buffy - 05/20/03 - Chosen (This is the end. And spoilers, obviously))

Cafe Society
101

Stupid hamsters. Trust me when I say my first reply was brilliant - this re-engineered one is not going to be as good.

I liked parts of the finale… the overall plot of the final episode was good. Unlike some, I liked Angel’s whine, Spike’s punching bag, and the oil comment. I liked bunnies as a rallying cry. I liked the characters finding their voices (more to the point Joss writing their voices) again. (I still hate Kennedy). I liked the ending “What do we do now?” question - that’s exactly where it should end. With all that possibility.

But yeah, too many loose ends were just left there. “From beneath you it devours” implies a hell of a lot more than was ever delivered. Joyce’s warning to Dawn went nowhere. The rift in the slayer line thing went nowhere. As annoyed as I was by Nathan Fillion’s really horrible accent - there needed to be more explanation around him. There was too much “so, what about _________?” that feels like it should have been answered and wasn’t. (Even in this episode, did anyone actually read the file that Angel sent? They kept talking about what he said, and never mentioned the file. Read the damn file.) The season left so much unresolved (in a bad way) that it doesn’t feel finished. The series feels finished, Season 7 does not (if that makes sense).

Oh well.

102

Yes. And…

FG = Fang Gang
MoS = Ministers of Grace (same as FG)
ME = Mutant Enemy (which you probably already know, but I thought I’d throw it in there, anyway)

103

It may have gone nowhere, but it was resolved. The rift opened because of there being two Slayers, in violation of The Slayer Rules. Buffy and Willow tore up the rulebook. No rules, no rift. A neat, Gordian Knot sort of solution.

104

Throwing in something from a different show several years ago for the ending of this one is pretty cheapass.

That does not excuse lack of self-consistency. When the road has huge gaping plotholes, your suspension takes quite a beating.

You stole the words right off my keyboard! Thief!

I think you started not caring as much last season, dude. :mad:

For all that, I think the last episode was about as good as it could be, given the horrible mess that was made of this season. The whole Spike thing and the güber-vamps was a contrived and lame deus ex machina, but the mess had to be cleaned up somehow. I guess Extra Strength Pine-For-My-Love-Sol is as good a way to mop up evil as any, given the circumstances. On the other hand, I kept expecting Gandalf to show up with the Riders of Rohan. If they were going to crib off of Two Towers, they could at least have given it a nod. Maybe have Faith and Buffy

The characters all had their own distinctive voices once again, and there was a lot of the old wit that made the show so great in the first place. I actually had several honest-to-(insert deity of choice here) belly laughs, which I haven’t had for quite a few episodes. My favorite parts were Anya saying, “I wouldn’t call them [cannon fodder] to their faces, I’m not insensitive.” And Giles and Xander going over battle plans… against Trogdor the Burninator. Did Andrew say, “The pungent smell of mildew emanates from the wet dungeon walls?” I’ll have to watch that part again. If he did say that, look here and here for the joke.

105

Another thing that occured to me as I wiped a couple of tears from my eyes at 8:59:59 last night: Buffy hasn’t been the best show on television for a while now. It didn’t regain the title last night. But Joss reminded me why it’s my favorite show on television, both last night and probably forever.

106

Elf6 and Apos.

I don’t know how reliable a source Star Magazine is, but it’s quite a nasty story about SMG they have.

Some quotes:

And:

Of course, JW is not going to spill, after all these years. And yes, it’s just speculation, from me, but I still put a lot of the blame on SMG.

And I also wonder how much they care about the fans. It’s been said over and over that the mini-scoobies were thrown out, becuase of the uproar from the fans. Huh? It was one episode, a few minutes. With a focus group in advance, that could have been resolved and never shown, if there indeed was an uproar. And when did ME and JW start to care about those things. The fans were in an uproar about Riley, Tara’s Death, so many things over the years. The writers have always made unexpected turns and some of those twists have upset some of the fans.

I gueass what I’m trying to say is: Even though there were fewer clunkers during the first half of the season, the arc wasn’t going anywhere. It really felt as if the writers were waiting for something. That something never turned up and I think it was Faith. Yes, she showed up, but not in the capacity a lot of them hoped for. Her guest starring in Ats and BtVS was known during summer. Why, oh why did they bring her back for suck a long stretch, if it wasn’t to set her up for a spin-off. Most people hated Faith when she finally left for jail last time. They needed to bring her back and make her likable, but still Faith. When thatfell through, all hope of saving the season was gone. It simply didn’t have a purpose, direction. There was no story.
Think about it - sum up season seven. What was it about? You can do it with the previous sex seasons - but can you do it with this one? I can’t.

107

What I meant to say was, maybe have Faith and Buffy yell out kill counts or something.

108

Well, the internet fandom exploded this summer when they found out that the casting sides were for semi-regulars. We’re talking, ten episodes or more. DB Woodside’s contract was for 10 eps. People were bitching, moaning, screaming, and complaining about that for 3 straight months.

What happened to Riley? he left. What was the response to Tara’s death? Willow got a new GF to prove that ME wasn’t full of homophobes. They respond to the fans…sometimes we just don’t get the response we want, is all.

For the billionth time, they planned a spin-off for Faith! They pitched it and everything. UPN even showed interest. Eliza Dushku decided she wanted to do True Calling instead.

As for the Star article…well, where there’s a smoke, there’s a fire. There have been a lot of interviews with all the regulars except SMG for the past month, and not one single person has said anything positve about her. Fury and Minear mocked her and Scooby-Doo last week. Even James Marsters, who has never, ever said anything negative about any of his co-workers, has been either avoiding the topic all together or damning her with faint praise.

109

RE: Seth Green & Ox. Joss on Salon said that he would have liked to have had Seth, but they just couldn’t afford it.

Sum up S7? Back to the beginning - the joy of female power, using it and sharing it (or whatever it was Joss said).

110

There was no discussion whatsoever of how this was a “rift” or even any trouble at all. Two slayers seemed better for the good guys all along: it was never revealed how it could possibly be an advantage for the bad guys.

111

Temper, temper, Pepperlandgirl.
I know there was going to be a spin-off. I was just trying to debate why this year was such a trainwreck. So the Internet fandom exploded during summer. Why was that first episode even shown? They had time to re-write if the up-roar started a couple of months in advance.
Yes, Riley vanished - after a season and a half. The proto-scobbies got seven minutes in one episode.

Slowly: My argument is that the writers didn’t know where they were going. SMG making it clear she wasn’t game for an 8th season, proto-scoobies not going anywhere, Spike’s insanity not going anywhere, Principal Wood’s storyline not going anywhere, Dushku being set up for a spin-off and not going anywhere.

If, as you said a couple of weeks ago, Pepperlandgirl the ending was decided by Joss W. last summer, why did the whole season de-rail? If you know where you’re going, it’s not so hard to plot the course.

My take on it: The UPN had ordered a 7th season. SMG had a contract to do it, and had to, but didn’t want to do it. ME was making money from the production, the writers and the crew had their jobs. JW wanted to get Firefly going and Ats had a well-oiled machinery and a clear idea about the story. Plus stars who wanted to do it (with maybe the exception of Charisma Carpenter).
It my strong feeling that S.7 of BtVS was done, just because…
They never had a story to tell, and no one gave a damn. So we got some truly great stand alones. Because they are indeed creative and talented people. But the arc wasn’t there - plain and simple.

And re: SMG being a bitch. I found this gem, where Alyson Hannigan talks about her:

112

I think the brightest spot in the whole episode was Buffy wanting to see her two vampire exes wrestling in oil. Oh, yeah, and more Spuffy snuggling. Although I still don’t get what he sees in her…

“Pretty, ain’t he?” yeah, we all think so. Nice of TFECaleb to point it out.

When I read the script summary three weeks ago, I thought the ending scene was going to come off as a bunch of shell-shocked Scoobies grieving for the mall because they couldn’t get their minds around what had just happened. I was wrong. It just came off as lame sarcasm. I thought Xander shook Anya’s death off a bit too easily.

I did like the bit with the “Welcome to Sunnydale” sign falling into the crater, though. Yeah, Spike ran it down when he first came on the scene in “School Hard”, then again on his return to Sunnydale in “Lover’s Walk”. I was actually more than half expecting to hear a whispered voice-over say “Home, sweet home,” which would have set the stage for the audience to believe that he wasn’t truly dead in the gone forever sense, making his return on AtS much less awkward. As it is, he died a really mystical death, much more mystical than Buffy’s death in “The Gift,” what with the soul-light burning him away from the inside out and all.

I think the final scene would have worked better if they had maybe first done a brief montage of the wounded SIT’s in the hospital, apparently on the mend, and a bit of Xander sniffling over Anya, and maybe Faith and Wood doing a bit of chaste cuddling… then do the group grieving for the mall and the picture bit with Buffy all smiling…

I did like the “what do you want to do tomorrow” bit, though. Not only did it flash back to When BtVS was the best thing on TV, it also gave a spark of optimism, planning what you’re going to do after the apocalypse. Gives the assumption that the Core Four was going to live through it. And “the Earth is doomed”- all it needed was Buffy enjoying a lollipop as she, Willow and Xander walked away from Giles…

But overall, I think it was a weak episode. I had been hoping for a two-hour finale, but I really don’t think Joss had two hours worth of finale in him.

113

Temper, temper, Pepperlandgirl.
I know there was going to be a spin-off. I was just trying to debate why this year was such a trainwreck. So the Internet fandom exploded during summer. Why was that first episode even shown? They had time to re-write if the up-roar started a couple of months in advance.
Yes, Riley vanished - after a season and a half. The proto-scobbies got seven minutes in one episode.

Slowly: My argument is that the writers didn’t know where they were going. SMG making it clear she wasn’t game for an 8th season, proto-scoobies not going anywhere, Spike’s insanity not going anywhere, Principal Wood’s storyline not going anywhere, Dushku being set up for a spin-off and not going anywhere.

If, as you said a couple of weeks ago, Pepperlandgirl the ending was decided by Joss W. last summer, why did the whole season de-rail? If you know where you’re going, it’s not so hard to plot the course.

My take on it: The UPN had ordered a 7th season. SMG had a contract to do it, and had to, but didn’t want to do it. ME was making money from the production, the writers and the crew had their jobs. JW wanted to get Firefly going and Ats had a well-oiled machinery and a clear idea about the story. Plus stars who wanted to do it (with maybe the exception of Charisma Carpenter).
It my strong feeling that S.7 of BtVS was done, just because…
They never had a story to tell, and no one gave a damn. So we got some truly great stand alones. Because they are indeed creative and talented people. But the arc wasn’t there - plain and simple.

And re: SMG being a bitch. I found this gem, where Alyson Hannigan talks about her:

114

That was strange. First, the hamsters ate my post. To be sure I didn’t double post, I opened a new browser window, refreshed, emptied the cache and no, my post wasn’t there. So hit hit send another time. And now it’s there. Twice.

Sorry.

115

Joss put the final scene—the one at the crater–to paper last summer. Joss had a beginning (Lessons) and an end (the final scene) planned. It all went to hell from there. Marti making comments like “Oops, we forgot Spike in the basement! ha ha!” and UPN cancelling the contracts in January for the actors who played all the Big Bads in the past, Joss getting distracted by trying to save Firefly—the list goes on and on and on.

116

UPN cancelled the contracts?!?

As for SMG, I’ve actually seen the opposite to what everyone else is saying as quite a few people have very definitely said they got on well with her recently - Greenwallt, David Boreanaz, Eliza, at the very least. And SMG said herself that she got on with JM like a brother (a brother who you regularly have to get half naked with, but there you go).

I’m really thinking that a lot of the supposed the problems about this season are that they were building towards this last episode - and when it comes down to it, it wasn’ that big. They were just playing for the time all the way to then and I actually think the pacing’s been mostly similar to previous seasons, you’ve just noticed the slowness more as its the last one as they kept trying to hype up the First without showing us anything (everyone in Sunnydale is running away… uh, why exactly?)

The one thing that got me rather worried (and I should point out that I hate MN bashing, 'cause I mostly love her) was on the A&E documentary thing was when Marti tried to describe the Dawn storyline and was failing. Uh, hello? Two years ago, and not the most complicated-est thing ever (especially compared to Spike). I’m realy, really hoping that she was just joking around.

117

Marti was joking about the Key. She was poking fun at the absurdly convoluted plots of the show. Let’s face it, even the simple plots require a whole lot of disbelief suspension…

118

Slight nitpick: a couple of people have mentioned that Spike had an entire town dropped on his head. This isn’t true. The huge cavern they were in wasn’t underneath Sunnydale, it was in an alternate dimension: it was the hell that the Hellmouth led to. So he didn’t just have a town land on him, he had an entire dimension implode on him.

As to what went wrong with the season, I think pepperlandgirl has inadvertently put her finger on it: the changes based on fan reaction. Don’t listen to the fans! We’re morons! All we can tell you is to keep doing the same stuff you did before. Consequently, the show becomes repetitive and cliched. ME shouldn’t have caved to fan pressure and abandoned the arc they had planned, they should have taken it as a challenge to make us like it. Maybe it would have failed. Maybe it would have been worse than what we got (although I find that hard to believe). But dammit, at least it would have been different and surprising, instead of the muddled, tired mess they delivered to us.

It’s like ordering pizza for a bunch of people. One person wants veggie, one person wants meat lover’s. One wants plain cheese, one wants anchovies, one wants Hawaiian-style. If you try to get one pizza that’ll please all those people, you’re going to end up with a pizza no one likes. But if you lay down the law and say, “We’re getting sausage and pepperoni,” even the people who didn’t get what they really wanted can still get something that’s good enough.

119

Exactly. For example, Joss trid to make all the B/A shippers and all the B/S shippers happy in the finale. Except, of course, the vast majority of the B/A shippers I’ve read and talked to hated it and the vast majority of Spike fans hated it. In the end, very few people were happy. (I was happy, I got everything I ever wanted out of the episode, but then, I’ve lowered my expectations as the series progresesd.)

120

The very best scene of the episode was when Giles, Willow, Xander, and Buffy had their last talk before the showdown. Then they each peeled off: Giles (the Cowardly Lion, forecasting doom), Willow (the Tin Man who finally found her heart), Xander (if he only had a brain–Scarecrow, I’ll miss you most of all). Buffy/Dorothy, who in the end had to do a little more than just click her heels, and no, she’s not in Kansas anymore.

There was definitely a tear shed in La Maison Rubystreak over Spike, and knowing he’ll be back on Angel is only a minor consolation, since Angel is inexplicably on against The West Wing… I only watch TV one night a week-- it’s not fair!

So, goodbye, Buffy, and thanks for the memories.