The ending picked up a bit, and it was nice to see Buffy actually use her head for something other then a hat rack. It was also a small twist-- the first that was not telegraphed to us in a long time (c.f. Angel, with the better writing and direction, and, on average, acting).
Remember the Judge? Olaf’s hammer? Although “pulling the sword from the stone” as it were does seem a bit, umm, borrowed.
Oy.
What? Nobody’s going to mention the Monty Python joke?
I can honestly say, I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition. 
Right there redeemed any flaws in this ep. Well, that and finally getting some Angel-esque fight choreography.
So, wild speculation time: Is the axe going to be the only thing that’ll kill Caleb? Or is it actually meant for the First?
Ah, never mind. I just went back and read the thread from the “Dirty Girls” ep, and I’m now thinking that wild speculating is almost as annoying as un-couched spoilers. 'Specially whiny wild speculating. Honestly, most of the people that dislike Dawn practically define “irony”.
What shipper groups do you think are out there for Killow and Food? Seriously? I have never met one single person who said “Oh baby, if we can only get Faith and Wood ot have sex all will be right withthe world.” There aren’t any vids dedicated to those guys, no fanfic, no message boards, no chat rooms. I’ve never met a fan who even likes Kennedy—Wait, I think there’s one on the SDMB, but that’s it. I mean, I get it. You don’t like shippers. Fine. But do you have to blame everything you don’t like on the non-existant “shipper camps”?
I don’t think we were supposed to be impresesd by the sex. ME has usually taken a hardline Sex is Bad. Can you think of just one positive consequence for having sex? The only post-coital truly happy couple I can think of is Willow and Oz. I think we’re supposed to have the reaction you’re having “That sex was stupid” and then couple it with “Awwwww, but Buffy and Spike didn’t have sex. See, they’re the true couple.” I don’t know why, exactly, sex is bad. I personally like sex, but there you go.
Re the magic axe. (This is vaguely spoilery, nothing specific.) It’s a bit more than Olaf the Troll Hammer
I think Buffy fought like that because she was revitalized. She believed in herself again, she was strong again, and she had time to really think of a plan while she was snuggling with Spike. She’s not a stupid girl, she could probably figure out to duck the big meaty fists flying at her face rather than trying to fight back.
Boooooooooooooooring. So obviously a ploy to stretch out the series to fill all of sweeps month. Oh, and lets not forget the obligatory sex scenes so we can lure in as many viewers as possible. Those scenes were anything but titilating - they didn’t even make me feel sorry for them, having their “I’m scared and the world’s gonna end hold me” sex. Yawn.
Hate Kennedy. Hate all the SIT’s. Spike is cool, and Buffy seems to be buying a clue here and there, but overall mighty unimpressive.
Bring on Angel.
Man, no end-of-the-world nookie for Giles. That was some of the most gratuitous on-screen sex I’ve ever seen, doing nothing to advance either plot or character development but simply fitting into an apocalyptic cliche. Faith and Wood should have been hot, but weren’t. It was all pretty empty.
The interaction between Faith and the Mayor, and then Faith and Wood (up until the sex) was the best part of the episode for me. When necessary, Eliza Dushku can show quite a range of expression. I still like that the First doesn’t care whether you know it’s the First or not, but takes total advantage of your emotional connections to whatever form it chooses. It was nice to see Faith shaken by seeing the Mayor; I always liked to see a departure from her usual brusque and bitchy manner.
Telemark, I think your post is dead-on. Funny, too.
This was the only part of the episode, aside from the Willow/Kennedy pairing, that didn’t work for me at all. Let’s see. Let’s kidnap a Bringer with the objective of pumping him for information, but before he has the chance to say anything at all useful, slice his throat. Brilliant! The Bringer mentions Caleb, WHOM THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, and Xander for whatever reason asks to hear more about the “beneath the dirt” bit. Gah! So they ask absolutely nothing about Caleb from the one creature likely to tell them something useful. So incredibly stupid. Beyond out-of-character for Giles. If anyone’s “come back wrong,” it’s him.
I liked the rest of the episode, though, and trust that the final two will address some of the still-outstanding loose ends. The sex scenes were mercifully brief and we all knew they were coming from the commercials/previews. It was nice to see that Faith makes an even more dismal leader than Buffy. Spike and Buffy finally seem to be communicating without putting up artificial barriers. Spike yelling at all the people in Buffy’s house and punching Faith was great. I don’t think it deserves the dire ratings some of you fine Dopers are giving it.
Yeah, but ultimately it was a good thing that they slit the Bringer’s throat. Everything he was saying was a lie, setting them up for a trap. I guess that’s what you get when you try to trick the First Evil. The arsenal in the dirt is where the First wanted them to go (obviously). It may have seemed out of character, but ultimately, it was the right thing to do. Who knows what other mis-information and trap setting it would have done?
I agree; in fact, pretty much my only discomfort with the series this season is that there are waaaaay too many characters crawling about in the same screen space. Specifically, the SITs. The series, for so many years, has been focused well on the small (although, admittedly, growing) group of regulars; with the injection of all those SITs (I also admit to an unexpected surge of happiness when Kennedy was walking alone and I thought, for one brief, fleeting moment, she might be (ahem) cleft from the season), she now, as Thea wrote, has an army. The Slayer has always seemed to be the antithesis of an army.
Besides, part of the appeal of the show to me for all these years is that no one outside the group is aware of what’s going on. Now that the town openly admits to the creepy (although, probably fitting for a series end–even if somewhat of a cliche), we don’t have the private world anymore.
Truth be told, that annoyed me about the Initiative, too. That and Riley was just boring. 
Telemark you’re totally right. Spike is Buffy’s lobster. I was never a Spuffy shipper and thought they didn’t make sense together. But his declaration of love to Buffy last night was one of those “You had me at Hello” kind of moments. I got all choked up. Angel never really appreciated Buffy. Riley was a good substitute for Valium. Spike’s the only one who would move heaven and earth for Buffy and loves her for who she really is. That alone made the episode worth it. Plus the thought that Kennedy might get blown up. She’s just abyssmal.
The bright red coloring of that axe kind of made it look like Barbie’s Dream Decapitator.
I fail to see how some nimble ducking qualifies as a stunt. Hell, I think I’ve pulled off moves like that in grade school during dodge-ball.
My favorite part of this episode was Faith’s confused “I thought he just wanted to scare me! Now you say he was after this Achilles Heel thing?”. Now that’s funny.
Nah, then it would have been pink. This was more like the Craftsman Multi-Purpose Monster-Killing Device. Available at Sears for $399.99.
I. Fucking. Hate. Kennedy.
If the First gets to snap a neck I sincerely hope it’s hers - if she isn’t already vaporized in the explosion.
I watched the Willow/Kennedy scenes on the verge of feeling like I was watching a rape. They have zero chemistry, and Kennedy comes off like a pushy frat boy. Hell, she comes off like a pushy frat boy even when she’s not trying to screw Willow. If only Faith gave her the beating she gave to Connor…
During the Killow moment, my hubby says “I didn’t think you could make girl on girl action be bad, but that’s BAD.” That and he kept cheering for Faith to lose more clothes. :rolleyes:
But if anyone has the full text of Spike’s speech to Buffy, I’d really love to get it. It was just perfect.
Okay. I’ll bite. I’m not in on the lingo. What the hell is a “shipper”?
You and I know that. All the viewers know that. Caleb and TFE know that. But if Giles knew, why did he let them set out for the thing that was so abviously a trap (as seen from our perspective). He didn’t know it was a trap. So then, why slit the throat to stop the lies? Why even kidnap the damned thing? It just doesn’t hold up to closer scrutiny.
I don’t mind meta-storytelling. But this was not the case.
When Faith returned and she nd Spike shared that moment in the basement, when Buffy walked in unexpectedly, they were about to go at it. It was heavily implied. Why would Spike even consider that, if Buffy is his lobster*?
And are we so sure Buffy is right about the vineyard? It seems to me that those in this thread who think so, are also the people who dislike Faith (and/or Dushku). I’m not so sure Buffy is in the right place, for the sake of fighting evil.
*was ‘lobster’ coined by Phoebe in ‘Friends’ or was it around before that? Can we actually say this is common usage and actually date when the phrase was coined? If so - amazing.
I think BUFFY was right insofar as there was something in the winery that Caleb was protecting. Which obviously she was right.
But right now, I’m pretty much a Buffy-hater. She’s just a self-righteous bitch.
Buffy didn’t do anything special in that fight with Caleb at the end. Oh boy! She dodged! That’s so Matrix-y.
Buffy is at the point where she has NOTHING so of course she’s going to fight better. She has no friends, no one to watch out for. She’s got nothing left to lose.
And with Giles slitting the Bringer’s throat… IT wasn’t out of character… He’s RIPPER. Remember? This is the guy who killed Ben by suffocation! He doused a baseball bat with gasoline and lit it on fire and took the fight to Angelus and Dru. I think it was season 5 when they captured one of Glory’s minions to get info and Giles sent Willow out of the room (under the pretense of getting rope) so he could torture the guy. Giles probably thought it was a good plan kidnapping the Bringer (or didn’t want to shoot Faith down after her first big “plan”)… and then when it became obvious they weren’t getting anything good out of him… he killed the bad guy. Actually from the moment they annoucned that plan I wondered if they would keep the Bringer hostage or execute him. I was glad Giles did it.
Oh and I never got the impression that Faith and Spike were going to get it on in the basement. It seemed like IT could have lead to sex later… but not right then. It was more like flirtation tempered with feeling eachother out.
I for one have really enjoyed the SIT ( I always thought they should be the SIWs as in Slayers in Waiting but that’s just me.)
I would have rather seen brief scenes of what they do all day then anything with Caleb (Every comedian has a southern preacher character- MArk Mckinney) or Willow/Kennedy scenes.
As far as The Slayer being a ninja or whatever…Sure that’s what the Slyer is supposed to be… but that’s why most Slayers have VERY VERY short careers. Buffy is special because of her support system. The only Big Bad that Buffy has taken out without signifigant help from her friends is Angelus. The MAster killed her and if it wasn’t for Xander she’d still be in that sunken church. Season 3 was the first time Buffy played leader and it worked pretty well. Season 4 reguired Buffy to actually become one with her friends to defeat Adam. Season 5 required a coordinated attack by everyone. Season 6… Buffy wasn’t even there for the showdown with the Big Bad. She was underground fighting Inhumanoids. So yes… if you want the Slayer to die… she should be on her own.
I just wanted to correct a misimpression: the original “he’s her lobster” reference in this thread was about Xander and Anya, not Spike and Buffy.
Carry on.
I guess I’m in the minority here,but I liked the epsiode.
I loved Spike telling everyone off, and his scenes with Buffy. The sex was…well, not hot, but it didn’t annoy me. I think, as others have said, it provided a good contrast with S & B.
I don’t hate Kennedy either. I don’t like her, but I also don’t wish horrible death on her. The sex scene with Willow was uninspiring, but I was just looking at Willow anyway. Any Willow scene is good.
Based on the word “relationship” (or sometimes worship 
) a shipper is a ardent fan of certain relationships or characters on a show, generally to the exclusion of other issues.
There are some for every concievable relationships in the show. Some of the fan-fict I have seen. . . .
Pepperlandgirl is more active in many of the Buffy sites and can tell you more. Hopefully she will be along shortly.