Drusila eating my bottom…
ohhhh yeah
Bad writing. Head over to http://www.boilsandblindingtorment.com/ for some commentary on the subject.
This summer when ME was under fire for killing a lesbian.
Cite?
There’ve been references throughout Willow’s tenure as a lesbian that she is indeed lesbian as opposed to bisexual, e.g. “Hello, gay now!” I don’t think that Joss permalezzed her in response to the outcry over Tara’s death. There was concern that, with Tara dead, Willow would revert to strict heterosexuality (by, say, hooking up with Xander) or that she would be presented as a “gay until graduation” stereotype. All of the interviews I saw with anyone connected with ME over the summer all indicated that this would not happen because Willow is an all-the-way lesbian.
I’m not in a position to speak from facts, but I got the impression that sexual orientation was locked in early, and that Willow’s longing for Xander and relationship with Oz would imply against strict homosexuality.
Anyone in sutch a position care to contradict me?
Otto, before the Tara fiasco, the party-line was that Willow was bisexual. Her feelings for Xander and Oz were real, and for the most part, ME did a pretty good job of keeping things ambiguous at best (in interviews). It wasn’t until this summer, after the huge outcry, that JW confirmed that Willow was in fact, completely gay. Or, alternately, it wasn’t until this summer that JW felt it was necessary to specify that Willow was completely gay and not bi.
Sorry, my link was not meant to be a response to robertliguori.
But to respond to him: the question is a giant can o’ worms. There’s no definitive answer although the consensus of opinion among the reputable scientific community is that indeed sexuality is locked in very early in life. However, people’s recognition of their actual sexual orientation does not come with that locking in. People may still behave and feel cotrary to their actual sexual orientation before, during and after they realize what it is. People tend to assume themselves to be heterosexual until such time as they realize they’re not. Additionally, Willow’s attachment to Xander may be read as an attachment to Xander as opposed to a hetero- or bisexual orientation. Entering into a relationship with Oz also doesn’t contradict her lesbian orientation because one, she didn’t know at the time she was lesbian and two, just because she was a lesbian doesn’t mean she can’t have strong emotional attachments or attractions to males. Sexuality is wonderfully complicated and a goodly portion of it depends on self-identification.
Not meaning to turn this into a Willow’s-sexuality debate thread…if there’s enough interest maybe a separate thread can be started up?
Ok, Joss told Wanda (of E! online) in an interview that this summer, he and Martia had to sit down and decide if Willow stay bi, be gay, go straight, after another SO, experiment, and eventually they decided she would be completely gay and have a GF.
This caused some people to suspect that the kittens (W/T fans) bullied M.E. into doing something with Willow they didn’t want too. I think that M.E. was under a bit of pressure, but I have a feeling Joss would have done anything he wante.d But the ultimate decision of what to do with Willow occured tihs summer after Tara’s death.
But losing trust in eachother could destroy them (as it almost did in the 4th season). If they are teh only real opposition that TFE has, then it seems like separating them, and therefore weakening them, would be good battle strategy. Plus, if it isn’t a real Giles, then why assume that the files are real files and not those planted by TFE.
Please note that I haven’t made up my mind about whether Giles is the real thing or not, just thinking outloud.
Did I miss this, or was it unexplained:
Why DID the slayer-in-training bolt?
She knew that the unstoppable vamp was coming to the house, and decided not to be there when it got there. Or she paniced.
She saw Giles’ head come off?
I didn’t catch it either.
<This requires a hijack:>
Though you may be gay from the day your born, cultural and religious influences, family biases, community conventions/expectations and lack of exposure can keep you closeted to yourself simply because it never occurs to you as a possibility.
My girlfriend didn’t realize she was gay until she was 26 years old and had dated men until then. Her upbringing was very right-wing Christian and she thought there was “something wrong with her” but didn’t understand why. She was in a relationship with a man for several years (loved him as a cherished friend but was never in love with him).
Another ex-girlfriend of mine was so shielded from the concept of homosexuality she thought lesbians were women who wanted to be men. So she thought that "Since she didn’t want to be a man, she couldn’t be a lesbian. :rolleyes: " She also came out at about 24 or 25 years old and dated men until she did some serious soul searching.
Many lesbians have relationships with men until they sort out their identity. Some identify briefly as “bisexual” during the coming out process.
</hijack>
[sub]Please note: Bisexuality is not just a stepping stone in the coming out process. I was practically in a same-sex marriage and you can’t get much more “out” than that, but I’m still, quite definitely bi[/sub].
Which is totally fine. What I took (such a small level of) issue with was the idea that by saying “This summer when ME was under fire for killing a lesbian.” the implication was one of cause and effect.
Oh, Otto you answered **robertliguori ** post already – and far better than I did, might I add. In my zeal I must’ve scrolled right past it.
My apologies!
In Amends Buffy entered Angel’s dream and saw what he was like when he was Angelus. The dream alarmed Buffy enough to think there was something wrong and she goes to help him. Maybe the First Good works through people’s dreams.
There is definitely something important about Buffy sleeping and dreaming. Faith told Buffy how to kill the Mayor in a dream. At first I thought Joyce was a manifestation of TFE but now I think she is an agent for good.
Now, I don’t know if Giles is dead or not. I don’t think he is but someone made good point about him dying for a second, like Buffy.
Also, I am thinking that Principal Wood may be a watcher for a future slayer in Sunnydale, who ever she may be (please God, not Dawn). So he’s good, right? Why didn’t he cover up the seal like Buffy and the gang?
Also, this really bothers me, Angel vacationed in the bottom of the Pacific ocean for a whole summer. Sure, he was a little crazy and hungry when he came back, but he did not seem to be on the verge of drowning like poor Spikey. That was lame and disappointing. And are they ever gonna give him more than 3 lines and scenes where he is getting the crap beat out of him? ME created such a well rounded character and they don’t seem to know what to do with him. that sucks.
peace
Yes, it was very badly done. Vampires do not need to breathe. My thought was that ubervamp must have him in holy water, but if that was so it did not bother the ubervamp. Possible, if the FirstEvil and the ubervamp pre-date the written word, then they pre-date Christianity and so Christian artifacts may have no effect on them.
Earlier we’d seen the SIT’s cross necklace fall to the ground, perhaps conventional weapons (except sunlight) will not hurt the ubervamp.
True, vamps don’t need to breath, but Spike breaths all of the time. When he’s excited, when he’s nervous, when he’s under stress, when he’s smoking. When they tied him to the wheel, he’s panting. Even if a little water in the lungs won’t kill him, it’ll probably hurt like hell. He’s not impervious to pain, and they weren’t trying to kill him, they were trying to break him. Plus, I’m thinking it’s more of the Christian imagery that’s been surround him since the beginning of the season. Hugging the cross, being “crucified” like St. Andrew, and now being baptized. Also, it might be a direct parallel to someone else who drowned in a dank waterhole close to the Hellmouth.
It wasn’t holy water. If it was holy water, it would be as grusome as when he hugged the cross–only more so.
Besides, like I pointed out before, Marti Noxon wrote it. She probably just wanted to see shirtless Spike all wet.
I thought the same thing about the breathing. I suppose it could be explained away that vamps still breathe because their bodies still have the reflex, but I agree it was lame.