Buffy/Angel fans: why are you hooked and I'm not?

Cafe Society
1

Don’t get me wrong, I like cheesy magic/horror TV. I watch Charmed. I like Firefly, so it’s nothing against Joss Wheldon. But whenever I try to watch Buffy or Angel, I get slightly nauseous.

Lemme give you a ferinstance: I caught part of a Buffy episode where she was fighting teenaged vampires in the park. She was doing grade school kung fu moves while another vampire was perched on a wall taunting her. He occasionally gave her a helping hand while telling her to come to the dark side or whatever. The action looked like it was choreographed for grandmothers. She eventually killed the vampires using Stooge Jitsu and stakes. There was no tension, no sense that she was in danger, or anything remarkable. It was the most anticlimactic fight scene I’d ever seen.

Now maybe the fight scenes are purposely uninspired and that’s the show’s appeal. Or maybe it was a bad episode. I’ve tried watching BtVS a few times since then, but just couldn’t get into it.

Next I gave Angel a try. Maybe it’s not as campy and silly as Buffy. The lead guy looks pretty serious. A vampire with a soul. While better than Buffy, it was still no better than what I could see by going to a high school play.

From what I could figure, typical plots are: Angel goes off somewhere to confront something supernatural while his cronies hang around at a bar and bitch at each other. By the end of the show, Angel gets in a fight with some badass supernatural dude and his face morphs into a Halloween mask I could buy at Eckerd’s. OK, watch a few more shows. It’s bound to get interesting and make me a vampire junkie somehow.

The next episode, Angel’s girfriend gets sucked into another time where she’s an oracle and this prince dude worships her. In response to his amorous pleadings, she says, “OK, like whatever…” Angel shows up at the end, gets in a fight with the prince, and then some prophecy happens and everybody goes home.

Then the next show, one of the chicks gets kidnapped by some cult who hides in a building under construction and they want to cut off her head. The green-skinned guy with little horns on his head who likes to sing Cabaret songs comes to her rescue. He walks out in public and apparently he’s considered normal. At this point I couldn’t take it anymore.

Did I just happen to watch the worst episodes, or is this typical? What’s the hook that’s got so many people interested?

2

All I can figure is … you are a bad person.

3

I don’t get it either. I’ve watched both these shows several times to see what the fuss was about and thought they were pretty stupid. Okay, I get it, the Buffy vs. the vampires tension is supposed to parallel the tensions between teenagers and society. I just think it’s a really boring, predictable show. Didn’t care for Firefly either.

4

Bwahaha!

Very amusing. :smiley:

To address the OP, however - it kinda depends on context. Buffy and Angel really depend on continuity to set up some scenes. I like a good stand-alone, but for Whedon shows, you really hafta do the homework.

The kung-fu isn’t top-notch in most cases, though. Don’t watch the show if you expect quality martial arts. They occasionally do something impressively right, though.

Also sounds like you were seeing the Angel episodes out of order.

5

I second Snooooopy’s judgement: you are bad people! :smiley:

Seriously, you need to start with some good episodes and an open mind. The fact that you appreciate Firefly speaks in your favor; the fact that you watch Charmed does not.

Watching Buffy or Angel for the fight scenes is like watching Emeril for the fashions. You have to buy into the extended metaphor.

As for people who don’t like Firefly… well, there is no accounting for taste. If everybody liked the same things, it would be a boring planet.

6

I agree that you are slightly nauseous.

7

No accounting for tastes. Heck, there are some people who don’t like ice cream.

You were definitely watching the wrong episode of Buffy to get hooked on because that episode in particular is based on a lot of what came before. And I could say that by the middle of the first season there’s not supposed to be much tension in the opening fight scenes, because any run-of-the-mill vampire who tries to mess with Buffy is bringing a knife to a gun fight. It’s just something to do on screen during the exposition. But hey, if you don’t like it, you don’t like it.

–Cliffy

8

Sounds like you watched part of a late S6 episode. Trust me that the fight was not even remotely the point of that scene. Without knowing the history between Buffy and Spike (the wall-sitting vampire) the scene means very little. Knowing the history of the characters and their recent history together, the scene becomes more meaningful. Especially as set-up for what comes later in the episode, which I won’t go into but is entirely horrific and leads to a major storyline both in BtVS S7 and AtS S5.

Have you tried watching it from the beginning, rather than jumping headlong into the middle? Some people can only get into a series if they watch it from the start so they know the backstory for everything. Others can come into it later and feel comfortable. I only got BtVS on a local station midway through S3 but I liked it well enough that I searched out some plot summaries for earlier episodes because I needed to know more about how the characters were related.

As for your critiques of AtS, I have to say that I wasn’t particularly fond of the Pylea episodes either, but your summary of them is not only simplistic it shows that you have very little knowledge of the relationship dynamics of the show. Again, watching it from the beginning might help you to appreciate it more.

Otherwise, yeah, you’re just a bad person.

9

I think I see the problem here…

Who the heck is this Wheldon dude? :smiley:

10

I never got into them either on TV, and yes, they had their moments but they also seemed silly. I love Buffy now.

There are a couple of episodes that are simply great all by themselves. However, most episodes are considerably enhanced if you know the backstory. It probably isn’t as bad as I imagine watching a middle episode of “24” might be, since in Buffy there is often a one-off plot as well as the ongoing plot in an episode, but you can only appreciate the intent of the whole series when you know the context. This is distinctly different from a show like Charmed, which aims to let new viewers enjoy every episode. (Not a value judgement, the shows just have different missions.)

I got interested in Spike and his soul, and ended up buying the DVDs. It was only when seeing them in sequence that I “got” it. It took over my dreams for a long time, too. I am hooked, and amazed at what Joss Whedon’s vision was, and achieved.

I only know Firefly from the DVD, but from the commentary there, the show on Fox was shown out of order and at varying times. For example, believe it or not, Fox showed the two-hour pilot last. If you saw it on Fox and didn’t like it, I’d say the jury is still out.

I am currently working my way through Angel, and frankly, it doesn’t grip me the same way at all. It is essentially a story that goes through all the seasons, for one thing, so it often ends with cliffhangers at the end of an episode or a season, in contrast to Buffy’s story rhythm. Somehow the characters and the situations don’t sing to me the same way Buffy and Firefly did.

If you have a chance to see the DVD versions, or else watch or tape episodes in order (the reruns will sometimes show a season in sequence) you might try that to see if it is for you. Seeing random episodes probably won’t show you what it is all about.

Then again, you could simply have a taste for something different.

11

OK, confine me to the leper colony, I am scum for not getting Buffy.

But I’ve come into other shows in the middle of their series, like Babylon 5, and got hooked enough to want to stay with them.

If I have to watch the series from beginning to understand the extended metaphor, I may as well as study Verhoeven movies for the intrinsic satire. (Sorry, couldn’t resist)

12

Small Hijack (not worthy of it’s own thread)

From TV Guide Online:

Don’t watch The Mountain but thought I’d pass this along.

Carry on talking to the bad people… :wink:

13

Well in that ferinstance, IIRC, she wasn’t in any danger - the fight was background. There wasn’t supposed to be any tension in it, there wasn’t supposed to be anything remarkable…what the fans were watching was the interaction between Buffy and the vampire perched on the wall.
What they were saying to each other (and when, and how) was the scene.

14

Keep watching it until you agree with us. If you still don’t understand then its because you are stupid.

::Gasp::

Sorry I was taken over by some sort of evil spirit for a second.

I agree, if you are serious about giving it a try you have to start from the beginning. The strength of the show is in the writing and the depth of the main characters. The characters grow as the show goes on. Just like any show there are some clunkers and there are a few in the beginning before the show started to hit its stride. Most of the seasons are now on DVD so you can see them in order. If you still don’t like then its just not for you. I perfer Angel myself but I would not suggest jumping into that without seeing Buffy to get context. To contridict myself, my wife watched all of Angel and loved it but only saw the last two seasons of Buffy.

15

I used to make fun of my wife for watching Buffy. I would see an episode or two that she made me watch, and while I thought some of the dialogue was clever it just didn’t grab me.

Two things changed my mind: 1) She taped the Season 4 episode “Hush,” and made me watch it. In my opinion, it’s one of the finest hours of television ever produced.

And 2) I got her the first three seasons of Buffy on DVD as a present a year or so ago. She wanted me to watch them with her, so I started from the beginning. And I got hooked.

Having said that, I like Angel much better. The characters, for the most part, avoid the teenage angst that runs through Buffy, and the whole show just seems to flow better to me.

It’s all a matter of taste, though. If you don’t like it after giving it a fair shake, don’t watch it.

16

I agree with what others have said. There are important fights in Buffy filled with tension, but the one you watched was not one of them. In fact, almost any time you see Buffy actually fighting vampires, you can rest assured that the killing of vampires is not even close to the point of the scene.

The show itself pokes fun at the fact that it’s so easy for Buffy to take out vampires - she routinely carries on conversations with other characters while slaying. The point of the scene is is the conversation (and I’ll also note that the episode you caught was a) part of season 6, which I think is vile, and b) part of an ongoing storyline that probably won’t make much sense if you come in right at the middle; if you’re serious about giving the show a try, start out with some of the one-shot episodes from the first three seasons), not the fight.

17

Knowed Out, I’m right there with you. I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do to be wowed by Buffy (watched it from the beginning, had it explained to me), and have never thought it was as great as most folks seem to think it is. It had above-average writing when Whedon was paying attention to the series and about average when he wasn’t. It had a lot of good supporting actors, but was hampered by a lead actress who can’t act and a tendency to pile new concepts on existing characters when a new one was really called for.

18

I started a thread here earlier this year that asked for the same thing. The board convinced me to give it a try. Now I own seasons 1-6, eagerly awaiting S7, and also own seasons 1-3 of Angel (and ordered S4). My husband was the same way. Heck, he didn’t initially watch after the first part of the pilot because it just wasn’t that great. I had to convince him to watch the show after I finished several seasons, and he also became as addicted as I did. Now he’s working his way through Angel S2.

I’m sure there are plenty of people who wouldn’t like the show even after giving it more than an episode or two, but as others pointed out those episodes you watched are in the middle of the seasons and require a bit of backstory to understory.

19

first of all, you have to buy into the silliness. sure, it seems stupid at first. but really, do you think a show called “buffy the vampire slayer” is supposed to be without its share of silliness?

after you get past that, i think it’s just all about sense of humor. when buffy is good, it’s hilarious. sure, some people just don’t get it. that’s cool, i guess. and once you get hooked, you really get invested in the characters. i’m usually a casual tv watcher at best. but with the buffy series, i mad a point to catch every episode. it’s sort of a cult thing, maybe.

20

Really,** don’t ** watch The Mountain. It’s horrible, and the cast isn’t attractive enough to suffer through the poltlessness.

All though Snooooopy’s comment made me laugh, I disagree. You’re not a bad person, you’re just whimsy impaired. What do you think of The Rocky Horror Picture Show? It’s campy/horror too, so that’s why I ask.