You are in for such a treat! Wesley is my favorite character on Angel, and he undergoes the best character arc of anyone over the course of the show. To borrow a phrase from an older thread, but one that Selkie and I have used in conversation ever since, Wesley grows in a realistic way from a comic relief bumbler to “the hardest man in L.A.”.
It’s actually another Television Without Pity quirk. From their FAQ section:
Yeeeeeeeees. Join us…
I’ve seen them referred to as the “A-Team” as well.
Seconded (or is it thirded at this point?). Wesley’s also my favorite character, from both shows, and it’s almost entirely because of his incredible character arc. The most impressive thing about it, actually, is that it’s so gradual… there’s no single “turning point.” The changes are entirely in-character and make sense at every step.
I agree; according my understanding, there is no “the” little bad, except per episode.
Each season starts without an obvious big bad. Little bads abound. Eventually, one of the LBs emerges as the BB. All the rest, are LBs. Sure, some of them are more prominent, and recur in more than one episode, but I don’t see the logic in the hierarchy of “Big Bad . . . Little Bad . . . [episode obstacle].” The binary nature of the terminology makes more sense to me as a description of the two arcs: Seasonal, and epdisodic.
Heh, first of all, I think this whole debate is ultimately a matter of personal opinion, and that we can all use “Little Bad” to refer to whatever we want.
[spoiler]However, I think a line can be drawn between the monsters of the week (athletic fish-monsters, Reptile Boy, literal loan sharks, etc) and the Little Bads. Every season of Buffy (with the exception of Season 5, unless I’m forgetting someone) has both a Big Bad and at least one other recurring villain who is crucial to the story arc of the season, but is not the main target of the Scoobies:
S1: The Annoying One
S2: Spike and Drusilla
S3: Mr. Trick and Faith
S4: The Initiative
S5: N/A (though possibly “Life itself”)
S6: The Troika
S7: Caleb
There’s a clear difference in scale between the impact of these villains on the season-long arc and those of the monsters of the week- in several cases, a clearer difference than between the Little Bads and the Big Bad itself.[/spoiler]
Again, though, it’s ultimately just a question of nomenclature.
are you forgettting from season 5 Glory/Ben, and the Knights of Byzantium?
Ah, right. Forgot about the Knights. I guess… because they’re so forgettable.
well more specifically you forgot Glory, the Hell God
IIRC, and I may not, a trioka is a term for a sleigh drawn by 3 horses, used in pre-Revolutionary Russia, and now used in modern-speak for a group of 3.
Is this terminology used in the series itself? I’ve heard Spike refer to himself as “Big Bad”, but I don’t remember hearing them talk about “Little Bads” on the show.
I’m a new fan - I’m up to season 6 of Buffy and Season 2 of Angel.
No, Glory is the Big Bad. I was listing the Little Bads.
Note how the Master, Angelus, the Mayor, Adam, “Life itself” (S6), and the First aren’t on my list either.
I never quite understood this reference either; oddly enough, SMG was in the Scooby Doo feature film, but after she began playing Buffy.
The wife and I loved BtVS and watched the last few seasons consistently, eagerly awaiting the next ep. Second adolescence or not, I really do miss that show.
I thought “Ruh-roh” was what Astro, the Jetson’s dog, always said. Scooby Doo’s speech was only slightly more understandable. And there was that laugh
Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee
Villian - “I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those pesky kids!”
I seem to be alone (or in a small group) but I consider Dark Willow to be the Big Bad of S6 and the Troika and Life to be the Little Bads
Scooby was Astro’s Great x 13 grandfather.
Television Without Pity called Angel’s people, “the Ministers of Grace”, which they got from Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 4:
Hamlet: Angels and ministers of grace defend us!
I’ve also only ever seen/heard/used the term “Little Bad” to refer to the recurring minor villains of the season (such as Spike & Dru, Mr Trick, Professor Walsh, the Trio etc), who rather than the per-episode villains. Part of what I like about them is that it often looks as though they are being set up as the major villain of the piece, but they’re overtaken by something even more dangerous.
And I’m with Aesiron in considering Dark Willow to be the Big Bad of Season 6. The idea that “Life Itself” is the Big Bad is just about the naffest thing I’ve ever heard come out of Joss Whedon’s mouth. It’s a drama series, life is supposed to be tough, and Buffy’s life was just as difficult in, say, Season 5 or Season 2.
“Life Itself”. Gimme a break. It’s like saying “Bad Decisions” was the Big Bad of Angel Season 5.
Yeah, maybe that and Wolfram and Freaking Hart!
June, I am so jealous. I wish I had Angel seasons 2 to 5 ahead of me, unwatched and ready to go. You’re in for a wonderful, exciting, weird ride. Especially when it comes to Wesley, who against all my expectations becomes one of the most fascinating characters in the Buffyverse. Enjoy!
Nick
Don’t forget the UberVamp earlier in Season 7 (not to be confused with the whole army of ubervamps in the last episode, who seemed to be not as strong as the original one was). Season 7 had more sets of Little Bads than most seasons of the show tended to, probably because the Big Bad was, afterall, the First Evil. The Principal at first also looked like he was going to be a Bad of some sort, but it turned out he was in fact one of the White Hats, just with some parental issues to work out.