Building a new computer... but there's one problem

Factual Questions
1

A little over a month ago, I told my friend that I could cheaply build him a good computer. Over the course of the next few weeks (as he got each paycheck), we would buy some of the parts (and other parts were given to him by me and another friend). Ultimately, we got him a 900 mhz Athlon T-bird, VIA Motherboard (with built-in sound), 40-gig 5400 RPM Maxtor hard drive, 64-MB GeForce-2 MX-400 video card, and a 48X Creative CD-ROM drive (and floppy drive, case, and a modem). We slap all the parts together, plug the cables in, and start installing stuff.

He’s got a copy of Windows 98 (2nd Edition) running on this thing. It installs nicely. It runs fine, Office 2000 runs fine, the Internet runs fine… in short, everything runs fine.

Except for the primary reason why he bought this thing: Games. More specifically, Diablo II. The game would load up just fine at first, and you can start playing and everything. However, after half an hour or so, the game would freeze up. Sometimes it’d freeze after only ten minutes. It never really seemed to matter what was going on in the game… it would just, randomly, stop.

We’re beginning to run out of solutions, and frankly, it’s really starting to annoy me. We’ve fiddled with BIOS settings, we’ve installed new drivers, we’ve installed old drivers (because hey, you never know)… we’re beginning to run out of solutions. I’m really close to invoking my Doomsday Scenario (which is when we just buy Windows XP and install that… hey, it worked for my brother).

But Windows XP costs money. So, until I try that, I say: Help me, Teeming Millions… you’re my only hope. Anybody have experiences with this sort of thing? Any idea what could cause it? Because, as far as we can figure out, this thing only happens to games. Any ideas on what might cause this sort of freeze-up? Bestow thy wisdom on me, please!

2

I had a similar problem when playing Black & White. It was just a bit too much for the PC I was running it on. So after scouring the net I found a solution.

When in Windows close everything down. Press CTRL+ALT+DEL and close everything that isn’t necessary. Then drop your colours down on your screen settings to something like 265 and change the screen area to 640x480.

This should free up loads of resources. Then just click on the game icon on the desktop and the game should load.

3

Some games have certain sounds effects, where if you don’t have the sound card they want, it will crash the game when that sound effect is triggered.

I had that happen with and DUKE NUKE EM and BLOOD. I ran it with the sound off to get through those parts.

4

Could it be that some component gets a bit too hot after a while of extensive gaming?
Open the box and check around for some abnormally hot component. Could be the CPU, but just as well memory or (more likely) graphics card.
If that’s the case, try running with the hood off, and maybe aim a small fan into the thing to see if that works better.
Overheating can generate strange errors. I have never experienced it with PCs, but with the kind of small embedded systems I work with it might result in freezes or arbitrary errors. (The timing of certain types of electronics gets out of joint with higher temp.)

5

I’d like to second tc’s suggestion: overheating. Since you’ve played around with drivers, BIOS settings, chook entrails and so on, I’d nearly put money on the machine overheating. Especially since it’s an Athlon, which run hot anyway.

If the motherboard’s recent (and it sounds fairly recent) it may have some onboard temperature controls, which you can turn on and manipulate in the BIOS. Athlons can run happily up to about 95 degrees C before they freeze (as in boil. A sort of roiling-boiling-freeze). Games make 'em run hot. Cook-an-egg hot. The motherboard settings (if present) will offer you the choice of running at half-power till it cools, or suspending all processing until it cools.

The board may also have come with some software that monitors the on-board thermostat and displays the temperature. This temperature is not necessarily the temperature of the CPU itself - Athlons don’t have a temperature diode built in, and the motherboard probe will be a millimetre or two from the centre of the die - but it’ll be close enough, and allow you to compare results. If the at-rest temperature of the CPU is around 80 degrees C, then a rise of 10 or 15 degrees while under heavy load is quite likely.

tc also offered a good test solution - run with the cover off, and point a fan at the thing.

Of course, it could be the power supply too. Does it have enough juice? You’d probably want a 300W or 350W minimum for that machine.

6

Grab a benchmark program (3dmark) and run a very rough test for a half hour or more. See if the problem happens there too after a while. Then feel around for a hot part.

7

Thank you, Marcus,for your confirmation of my guesses. You seem to be au courant in this area. I really haven’t played with PCs on that level since I bought my first 386-33 motherboard by transatlantic mailorder.

I thought of that too, but then I thought: If you take out too much power, doesn’t the power supply simply drop “Power Good”, which ought to cause a reset or halt of the MB?
Or don’t power supplies work like that anymore? (Things might have changed in the last 10 years;))

8

Per Bossk try disabling the sound drivers for the game (if possible) and/or disabling the onboard sound chip via the BIOS setup parameters. If the game runs without error it’s likely to be a sound chip compatibility issue. You might also want to see if you have the latest sound driver for that chip and the latest directX8 drivers installed.

9

Yes, the better power supplies still do this, and shut down to avoid damage. Most of them will just blow a fuse, or melt something instead. In the meantime though, heavy demand can cause the output voltage to “sag” a little. CPUs are quite sensitive to voltage - that’s how you overclock 'em!

10

When this happened to me after building a new system, I did the following:

  1. Change screen resolution to 16 bit.

  2. Disable 3dFX within the game.

  3. Reinstall the latest DirectX controls.

  4. Have the game recheck the system settings.

Background software never slowed me down at all and I’m using a crappy little AMDk6/2 500.

11

My P3/600 HP machine, running windows ME, reboots in Diablo II, and used to reboot fairly constantly in other things as well. I’m not sure what caused it to stop rebooting so often, but it’s been a lot better ever since we put an air conditioner in our computer room… I think I’ll try taking the cover off tonight and see if that makes a difference.

12

Stupid question…

Have you installed the newest Via 4n1 drivers?

13

Yeah, I put in Via 4in1 drivers. However, I just recently found out that my Bios has to be updated. You see they have a newer Bios that corrects the Audio Codecs & Vcore voltage.
But Im using a Fic board. Via should know better buy now to have a correct Bios what with all the boards using their chipsets.

14

Maybe try disabling AGP fastwrites. And maybe force it down to AGP2x. This is all done in the BIOS. It may be at 4X by default.

Don’t ignore the heating issue as well. T-Birds can run very hot. Is it an OEM or retail CPU? If OEM what are you using for a heatsink/fan?

An extra case fan is almost a necessity if its not a very well ventilated case (the power supply fan alone is usually not good enough).

15
      • Firstly, update Windows and DirectX…
  • Secondly, games are the only software that usually use hardware graphics capabilities. Try disabling hardware graphics completely and see if the game runs in software mode properly (it should):
    (-in order-)
  1. Turn the desktop setting down to 640x480x16.
  2. Start the game up and turn off the game’s hardware accelleration,
  3. -and then turn the game’s display down to 640x480x16, then exit the game.
  4. Go to Settings->Control Panel->System->Performance(tab)->Graphics(button) and turn the Win98 hardware acceleration all the way off (to the left).
  5. Play the game in all-software mode for a few days and see if it still freezes. If it doesn’t, that means the problem is probably in the video-card/motherboard interface. Still plenty of chances for discovering new foul language, but it’s a start. - MC
16
  • Um… in between steps 4 and 5 you shoulda restarted the computer… - MC
17

I’m running a 1.2Ghz T-Bird on an MSI K7T Pro2A mobo running Win98SE. It is quite easily one of the simplest and most stable systems I’ve ever put together. Never, ever the slightest hiccup with it.

18

Just wanted to clarify that that’s not what Windows resources are. They’re pointers (or references) to device contexts like pens and windows. And they’re loaned out to apps by the OS like library books. Until XP and 2000, they were very limited in number. If you’re running low on resources, it’s because you have one or more resource hungry apps open. Not all apps that you might suspect of using a lot of resources actually do, like PhotoShop, for example. It uses around 15% when you might expect it to use four times that. That’s because they use proprietary interface elements that are owner-drawn, rather than Windows’ intrinsic elements, like command buttons and list boxes.

Sometimes it can help to close apps, but sometimes it doesn’t. Many apps don’t release the resources. Windows runs an assortment of garbage collection routines from within its giant switch block, but these don’t always reclaim the resources and can actually sometimes cause Windows to hang.

19

A lot of the cheaper GeForce 2 MX boards don’t come with a heatsink. It definitely needs one so if yours doesn’t have one, that might be the culprit. Aside from that, they’re pretty solid. I spilled antifreeze on mine while it was running!?! Twice!!! It makes the screen look funny.

Those crazy Diablo II guys hoked around with the CD format to create the copy protection. The protection works, but a lot of CD-ROMs have a hard time dealing with it. Like mine. I had to do a firmware update on my CD-ROM for it to work at all and it still gave me random freezes. I eventually switched it for another and solved the problem. You’ve got a different CD-ROM than I had, but look into it.

Do a full install on the big A hard drive you’ve got. Upgrading from 68 to 128 MB of main memory helped client-side lag TREMENDOUSLY. Now I’ve got 512MB just in case.

Aside from those additions, reiterating the point that you may have heat problems couldn’t hurt anybody. You’ll want to put a fan in that cheap-o mid tower case you probably bought. And another reiteration, you’ll want a 350w PS at a minimum. And put a bigger fan on your heatsink.

My $0.02.

20

Also something else you may want to check is the power supply for the system.

Athalon’s are VERY power hungry as are the Geforce2’s. Add in all of the other peripherials, and you can have the problem your encountering. And it’s usually overlooked as most people just don’t think of the Power supply could be causing the problems.

The main problem is that some of the cheaper powersupplies don’t feed alot of current to the 3.3v line. Which is what your PCI/AGP bus draw from and also the CPU.

Look at your supply, and see what the total watts are, and what the amount on the 3.3 line is (should be labled on he side/bottom of the PSU). I don’t remember what the exact numbers are cause I’m at work at the moment, but if I remember correctly you want them to be over 20-24 for an Athalon System with a Geforce2.