"Bullies have low self esteem" -The theory that came from nowhere & yet became social science dogma

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

It’s possible to have more than one cause, and thus two different, but equally valid, observations. Both parents who are far too strict, belittling and beating their children, and parents who are too loose, not providing guidance and rules for the children, are bad parents who fail to adequatly raise their children. One of the things they fail is to give the children an adquate sense of self-worth and self-esteem. Children who are beaten think that whatever they do, they fail, so they may turn angy and resort to only beating.
Children who are spoiled or ignored miss opportunities to experience that feeling of accomplishment when finishing a difficult task. They get what they want, so they believe that they have a right to take what they want.

Whenever dealing with extremes, the correct answer is not the opposite extreme, but the middle.

Or, as J.K. Rowling said before her last book came out, when talking about the Dursleys: “there are two abused children in that household” = spoiling Dudley is also a form of child abuse.

I don’t think “ambition” is the right word here. Rather, it’s the short wait time. They learned that a bit of whining will get them what they want. If they were ambitious and ever were given the chance to experience that working hard and taking the right steps toward that goal, that they can reach it. That would be the correct way of channeling ambition.

I wonder how much it has to do also with society in general, not only the parents. If you look around, you see CEOs making ff with milliions even when their companies are crashing, or simply stealing the money; they see states attacking other countries to take what they want; so why not assume that “might makes right” and take what you want by force?

Sadly, this is not completly true. Rather, it seems to be some basic character setting on how to people react to abuse: some people become broken and quiet and sympathetic, and avoid all forms of aggression because they know how bad it feels; other people conclude they can only rely on themselves, and that the only way to get ahead and protect themselves is to hit first.

22

I don’t think (male) bullies have a low self esteem. I think they have a low empathy for their fellow men, very similar to sociopaths.

People with a low self esteem tend to shy away from interpersonal interactions, bullies on the other hand tend to seek out chances to bully.

Bullies aren’t necessarily smarter or dumber, or more or less damaged by their home life, they are just bullies because they enjoy causing pain to others.

23

I think narcissism and sadism are far more prevalent among bullies than low self-esteem.

Another bullshit meme is that bullies are “cowards” who will be intimidated by anyone who stands up to them. Not true in the slightest.

24

Again, not what I’ve witnessed at all. I’m thinking of the bullies I knew growing up (I went to the same school for most of my school years so I got to know a few of them pretty well and, sadly, I have a few in my family.) They pretty much universally back down when confronted by someone who could pose an actual challenge. I’ve seen bullies fight, but I have never seen them pick or even accept a fight with someone who had a remote chance of competing. They’re not going to be intimidated by the 98lb weakling who stands up to them, but they sure as hell aren’t going to fuck with the guy their size or larger who stands up to them.

25

Sure it is. Don’t you remember?

26

Bullies don’t want to fight you. They want to beat you up, intimidate you or otherwise push you around. So they will typically single out weaker or more timid kids who they think won’t fight back. Or they will goad someone who they think won’t fight back for whatever reason.

My general experience, however, has been the more you stand up to them, the more likely they will think you are too much trouble and move on to an easier target.

It does help go to the gym or learn how to box or something so you actually CAN defend yourself.

27

I think bullies have found an effective strategy that works for them. There isn’t anything “wrong” with them other than the fact that the rest of us don’t like their strategy. When they get older bullies may have to try other means to get what they want, maybe they will learn to not bully or maybe they will go on to petty (and not so petty) crime, but in kids bullying is a rewarding pastime with very little downside.

As adults we know that bullying is not a good long-term life strategy, in general, but that will have very little meaning to a 13 year old with a pocket full of other peoples lunch money and the respect and/or fear of all those around him. If we all continue to believe there is something wrong with the bullies we’re never going to find a solution. Not that I have a solution other than to make my own kids strong enough to not be the target.

28

:stuck_out_tongue:

29

Yeah, just liking something doesn’t make you an over compensator. I do wonder about riding around constantly with a 90dB motorcycle. Is this also possibly just keyed to the need for “respect” and a real need for approval of others?

30

I sincerely hope that we’re witnessing not only the end of this particular bit of nonsense, but the demise of the entire self-esteem movement. As picunurse mentioned, there’s adequate evidence to rebut the central idea that we can boost kids’ achievement by unearned praise. American children rank first in the world in self esteem, but close to last in the industrialized world in academics. (So says this book.) The whole idea behind the self-esteem movement was pretty ridiculous to begin with.

31

I don’t know what the self-esteem movement is or was. Is it related to teachers not being able to use red pens anymore?

32

My opinion is that bullies simply enjoy inflicting pain and humiliation on others. Some bullies may be stupid and cowardly; others may be smart and brave. What they all share is a lack of whatever concience or sense of empathy that prevents non-bullies from exploiting others’ weaknesses for their own pleasure.

33

There are of course the sadistic people, too, or those who just haven’t had empathy imparted to them. My mom eventually bit one of the kids in the church nursery because she became convinced he didn’t understand that it hurt. He just enjoyed the commotion after he did it.

34

Actually there are plenty of jobs that reward social dominance and aggression. The bullies may have to retrain a little but the basic skills and worldview can remain intact.

35

So would you say their derision and verbal abuse of these behaviors is caused by low self-esteem?