Burning at the Stake - Green Wood/ Dry Wood

Some readers may find this thread distressing. I certainly will.

Inspired, if that is the word, by this thread, which briefly discusses forms of execution other than hanging or being shot, I began to think about those unfortunates who have been burned at the stake.

I had always thought that green wood surrounding the stake would improve the victim’s chances of dying more quickly by asphyxiation rather than actually burning to death. Green wood surely produces far more smoke than dry wood, yet the sources I have checked for this subject only mention asphyxiation in passing, and not specifically in relation to the fumes produced when burning same.

It seems that green wood was, in fact, reserved for those whom the executioners wished to suffer the most painful death possible. The victim would roast slowly in a most agonising way. On the other hand, dry wood was seen as a plus point for the condemned person because he or she would burn more quickly.

Proponents of the green wood = bad school of thought included none other than Tomás de Torquemada, and nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition to err on the side of sympathy towards its most heretical subjects.

Why then would a person suffering death at the stake not suffocate before burning when green wood is being used as fuel for the fire?

Many thanks.

Just a wild guess here, but I suspect that death due to searing of the lungs from extremely hot air of the dry wood fire would occur far sooner than death from smoke inhalation from a green wood fire. I base this solely on training many years ago as a volunteer fireman. They emphasized how deadly a flash fire can be. Of could they also warned of smoke inhalation, but that takes a lot longer. Eighter way a terrible way to go. Just my guess, I make no claim to be an expert, I am sure there are many dopers with much more trustworthy information.

Smoke is the stuff you can see, and you’ll get more of that from a green wood fire. But you can’t see the carbon dioxide, and you’ll get plenty of that from any kind of fire. Invisible carbon dioxide will asphixiate you just as surely as visible smoke will.

It would be dependant on the size of the fire.

[HIJACK]

If they reserved it, wouldn’t it cease to be “green”?

[/HIJACK]

sometimes his friends would manage to put gunpowder in the base of the pyre to speed things up (won’t explode when unconfined, just burns up quickly)

I just recently watched a PBS show on the Medicis during which they said particularly innocent victims of the Italian version of the Inqusition were allowed bags of gunpowder around their necks.

Note: the extra visible “smoke” from green wood is actually steam.

I stood today on the spot where the Protestant martyrs were burned at the stake in Oxford. According to [url=http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/Latimer,Ridley,Cranmer.htm]this account[/ul] it seems the relatives were able to assist to make their burning less agonizing, and that gunpowder was allowed to be used.

Nasty business.

I’ve read that Jeanne D’Arc was dressed in a short gown coated with sulphur when she was led to the stake. If it was intended to make her die quickly, it seems to have failed because some accounts say that the gown burned off her body, leaving her naked but very much still alive.

This author claimes that Jeanne died of heatstroke rather than from being burned by the fire:

The author doesn’t believe that she was killed by smoke inhalation since witnesses reported that she repeated the name of Jesus until she sagged forward and went silent. He posits that you can’t say anything clearly if you’re coughing from smoke.

Here is another account from Foxe’s Book of Martyrs of Hooper’s burning:-

*Command was now given that the fire should be kindled. But because there were not more green fagots than two horses could carry, it kindled not speedily, and was a pretty while also before it took the reeds upon the fagots. At length it burned about him, but the wind having full strength at that place, and being a lowering cold morning, it blew the flame from him, so that he was in a manner little more than touched by the fire.

Within a space after, a few dry fagots were brought, and a new fire kindled with fagots, (for there were no more reeds) and those burned at the nether parts, but had small power above, because of the wind, saving that it burnt his hair and scorched his skin a little. In the time of which fire, even as at the first flame, he prayed, saying mildly, and not very loud, but as one without pain, “O Jesus, Son of David, have mercy upon me, and receive my soul!” After the second fire was spent, he wiped both his eyes with his hands, and beholding the people, he said with an indifferent, loud voice, “For God’s love, good people, let me have more fire!” and all this while his nether parts did burn; but the fagots were so few that the flame only singed his upper parts.

The third fire was kindled within a while after, which was more extreme than the other two. In this fire he prayed with a loud voice, “Lord Jesus, have mercy upon me! Lord Jesus receive my spirit!” And these were the last words he was heard to utter. But when he was black in the mouth, and his tongue so swollen that he could not speak, yet his lips went until they were shrunk to the gums: and he knocked his breast with his hands until one of his arms fell off, and then knocked still with the other, while the fat, water, and blood dropped out at his fingers’ ends, until by renewing the fire, his strength was gone, and his hand clave fast in knocking to the iron upon his breast. Then immediately bowing forwards, he yielded up his spirit.

Thus was he three quarters of an hour or more in the fire.

Even as a lamb, patiently he abode the extremity thereof, neither moving forwards, backwards, nor to any side; but he died as quietly as a child in his bed. And he now reigneth, I doubt not, as a blessed martyr in the joys of heaven, prepared for the faithful in Christ before the foundations of the world; for whose constancy all Christians are bound to praise God*

Another version from the 1583 edition:

hen being in hys shirt, he tooke a poynt from his hose him selfe, & trussed hys shirt betweene his legges, where he had a pound of gunne pounder in a bladder, and vnder each arme the like quantitie deliuered him by the Garde. So desiring the people to say the Lordes prayer with him, and to pray for hym, (who performed it with teares, during the time of his paines) he went vp to the stake. Now when he was at the stake, three yrons made to binde him to the stake, were brought: one for his necke, an other for his middle, and the thirde for his legges. But he refusing them said: ye haue no neede thus to trouble your selues. For I doubt not but God will geue strength sufficient to abide the extremitie of the fire, wtout bands: notwithstanding, suspecting the frailty and weakenesse of the flesh, but hauing assured confidence in Gods strength, I am content ye doe as ye shall thinke good.
So the hoope of yron prepared for hys middle, was brought, whych being made somewhat too shorte (for hys belly was swolne by imprisonment) he shranke and put in his belly wt his hand, vntil it was fastened: and when they offered to haue bound his necke & his legs wyth the other two hoopes of yron, he vtterly refused them, & would haue none, saying: I am wel assured I shall not trouble you.
Thus being ready, he looked vpon the people, of whom he might be wel sene (for he was both tal, and stoode also on an high stoole) and behelde rounde about him: and in euery corner there was nothing to be seene but weeping and sorowful people. Then lifting vp his eyes and handes vnto heauen, he praied to himselfe. By and by hee that was appointed to make the fire, came to him, and did aske him forgeuenesse. Of whom he asked why he should forgeue hym, saying: that he knewe neuer any offence he had committed against him. Oh sir (said the man) I am appoynted to make þe fire. Therein (said M. Hooper) thou doest nothing offend me: God forgeue thee thy sinnes & doe thine office, I pray thee. Then the Reedes were cast vp, and he receiued two bundels of them in hys owne handes, embraced them, kissed them , and put vnder either arme one of them, and shewed with his hand how the rest shoulde be bestowed, and poynted to the place where any did lacke.
Anone commandement was geuen that fire should be set too, and so it was. But because there were put to no fewer greene fagots then two horses could carry vpon their backs, it kindled not by and by, and was a prety while also before it tooke the Reedes vppon the faggotes. At length it burned aboute him, but the winde hauing full strength in that place (it was also a lowring & a cold morning) it blew the flame from him, so that he was in a maner no more but touched by the fire.
Within a space after, a few dry fagottes were brought, and A new fire made to M. Hooper. a new fire kindeled wyth fagottes, (for there were no more Reedes) and that burned at the neather partes, but had small power aboue, because of the winde, sauinge that it did burne his haire, and scorch his skinne a litle. In the time of which fire, euen as at the first flame, he prayed, saying mildely and not verye loude (but as one wythoute paynes) O Iesus the sonne of Dauid haue mercye vpon me, and receiue my soule. After the seconde was spente, he did wipe both his eyes with his hands, and beholding the people, he sayde with an indifferent loud voyce: For Gods loue (good people) let me haue more fire. And all this while his nether partes did burne: for the fagottes were so fewe, that the flame did not burne strongly at his vpper partes.
The third fire was kindled within a while after, which was more extreeme then the other two: and then the bladders of gonnepouder brake, which did him small good, they were so placed, and the winde hadde suche power. In the whych fire he prayed with somewhat a loude voyce: Lorde Iesu haue mercy vppon me: Lorde Iesu haue mercy vppon mee: Lorde Iesus receiue my spirite. And these were the last woordes hee was heard to vtter. But when he was blacke in the mouth, and his tongue swolne, that he coulde no speake, yet hys lippes went till they were shronke to the gummes: and he knocked his breast with his handes, vntill one of his armes fell off, and then knocked still with the other, what time the fat, water, and bloud dropped out at his fingers ends, vntill by renuing of þe fire, his strength was gone, and his hande did cleaue fast in knocking to the yron vpon hys brest. The blessed Martyr long tormented in the fire. So immediately bowing forwardes, he yelded vp his spirite.

I stood there last Tuesday.

Maybe that had something to do with my question as well. These accounts are very disturbing. It is certainly a nasty business but thanks for all the replies anyway.

A nasty business, indeed. Several Protestant martyrs are shaved and burned at the stake on orders of “Bloody Mary” at the beginning of the Cate Blanchett movie “Elizabeth.” Not for the faint-hearted.