The ones who live in the ME where collectivist cultures prevail.
Then I’d suggest that you know very few Muslims.
And this is exactly what I mean. You can’t see past your cultural filter of where individual rights are paramount vs need for inclusion within the group, so you label a person a racist because you don’t understand it.
Indeed. The area around lower Sukhumvit Road in Bangkok is filled with small bars catering to the many Muslims who step out for a drink as soon as they land here. And I still have fond memories of a fellow student in Hawaii, a Muslim from Afghanistan who loved him his tipple and was constantly bemoaning his relationship with his Muslim girlfriend who didn’t like his drinking; he was unable to choose between the two.
My point wasn’t to say that they are hypocrites, but that the pressure of living in their culture doesn’t allow much deviation from the ‘norm’.
I think it also explains places where people stone adulterers, etc. You have to wonder why essentially the whole village turns out for the event when you know there have to be people appalled by what is happening. I’d be shocked if it wasn’t the majority, or I’d like to think it was.
How is it that a minority of a group constitutes a typical example of that group?
Its because they are a collectivist culture, see, that puts so much pressure to conform. Not like here, where individuality and deviance is prized. Why, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a mother and small child, and the mother will point to me and say “See that man, dear? That man is a weirdo. When you grow up, I want you to be just like him!”
Warms the heart, let me tell you.
Muslims who live in largely collectivist cultures = the majority of muslims.
List of countries by Muslim population
How many of those are an individualist culture? How many are collectivist? I can easily count almost 800 million in collectivist type cultures from the top 4-5.
A wiki on collectivist/individualist societies for those who are wondering what the hell I’m talking about.
You said that the typical Muslim is one who lives in the ME. Quite a few of the countries in your list are not in the ME. Now you’re saying that the typical Muslim lives in a collectivist culture. Care to try again? Oh, and you might want to keep in mind something about a Scotsman, a True Scotsman.
Christians who live in largely collectivist cultures = the majority of Christians.
No offense, but I have no idea what you mean by this post. It’s possible that elucidator had the same issue - though badly stated - rather than simply a rejection of an understood point. I honestly don’t follow your idea. Could you rephrase it?
Okay, scrap the ME then. Happy? My point is changed somehow?
Yes, and culture affects how they perceive and relate to their religion, too.
You can’t use the argument that because you, in an individualist society, decides that religion is modified, ignored or followed at your whim, that other cultures work the same way.
What does that mean?
It means it is easy for someone here to reject and change their religion to suit their particular needs, but not so much in collectivist societies. A small minority of influential people can control society, however large or small that is, within certain bounds.
Indeed there is, here we call those people “rich”. And the only thing uncertain about their bounds is whether or not they exist.
What the heck is this “collectivist” stuff, anyway? You couldn’t make the case that Muslimls sitink because of their religion, now you want to try a new tack? Now, its because they’re collectivist?
Hey, I can’t help it if you don’t understand it. You still can’t get past the fact that people might actually follow their religion as written in their books.
Some do; some don’t. I am just not so presumptuous as to believe I can tell the difference by looking at them.
Consider it an indication that something landed.
Why, yes, it is. Your premise was wrong then and it’s wrong now. Actually, your premise is prejudice. Why you fail to understand that is reaching the point of ludicracy.
What premise was wrong exactly? Uzi posted a list of Muslim populations by nation and percentage. It was color coded for easier dissemination. Are you arguing that predominately Muslim countries not specifically in the geographic mid-East are not highly structured around the religion?
What premise was wrong? Why, the premise that the majority of Muslims live in the Mideast.
Look, it’s been beyond obvious for far too long that both you and Uzi are prejudiced against Islam and Muslims and also that neither of you knows what you’re talking about. I’m not going to entertain you two any longer in this forum. If someone else decides to start a pit thread for you, I might participate there.
That’s a lot of work on spec. Why don’t you supply us with an argument that “predominately Muslim countries not specifically in the geographic mid-East are highly structured around the religion”? Give us your metric, while you’re about it, what specific facts we can measure to reach such a conclusion.
Are there any predominately Muslim countries that are not so “highly structured”? Or are all predominately Muslim countries “highly structured around the religion”? Does a country become “highly structured around the religion” when the Muslim population reaches fifty percent, or does it require seventy-five?
I know what “doo-wah-diddy” means. Not so sure about “highly structured around the religion”. Got a creepy feeling its going to turn out to be something like a “collectivist culture”, being something someone can say without defining what the hell it is, and dare me to prove it isn’t.