What, because I made a joke? It wasn’t at your expense, or intended offensively, though i’ll certainly apologise if I offended you. As to whether i’m really wanting to discuss or debate, I suppose all I can do is assure you that I do want to do those things and point to what i’d guess is quite a lot of posts in this thread by now by me. I’ve offered quite a few arguments; you may find them lacking, but i’d be suprised if you had honestly dismissed them entirely up until now.
I mean to say what I actually say. There is no hidden meaning. I’m going shopping now so you have a nice day. And by that I mean I hope you have a nice day.
I think you are missing the point. Some followers of Jesus will actually follow his words because he supposedly said them. eg. Turn the other cheek, give to the poor, etc. They might not have done so otherwise. The same holds true regarding Mohammad’s followers. Some may kill because he said it was okay to do so whereas they would not have done so otherwise. That many people do things contrary to their prophets teachings or example isn’t relevant because they would do whatever they want to do anyways. They are essentially followers of convenience.
No, I agree with all you have written here. That’s the point i’m trying to make; it’s not very helpful to say that fanatics will follow their prophets’ words and actions, because people, fanatics or otherwise, will generally do what they want to do irregardless of what their prophets are held to have said or did. You’re right that it isn’t a relevant point, precisely because people will do whatever they want to do anyway.
I’d add to that that we can’t really even include those who honestly believe they are following their prophet, given differing interpretations. I mean, in this thread alone, we have many different interpretations of the words of the Koran and Bible, the words and actions of Jesus and Mohammed. I don’t know enough Muslim board members to say, but i’m a regular poster in the general religious threads on here and among Christians at least there are posters who I have no doubt speak truthfully of their sincere belief and desire to follow Jesus, yet have radically differently ideas of what that means for them. To refer to your point, you could easily say that some followers of Jesus will actually follow his words because he supposedly said them, and thus kill because he said it was ok to do so. Some Muslims may not because Mohammed said it wasn’t. It’s not a matter of One Correct Interpretation, because even if there was such a thing we have no means of knowing what it is.
The problem, in the end, is when we try and attribute those ideas to prophets. It just doesn’t make much sense to me put much responsibility on those actual words when it comes to looking at what is to blame for modern behaviour. You can’t take texts which people so widely interpret and say “Ah, this is to blame for what goes on”, even less so “Ah, these particular people have this text as their basis”, and even less still “Ah, these particular people have this text as their basis, and I know because their actions align with my interpretation of it”.
What is convenient about suicide bombings? Do you think they’re trying to save money on long distance calls to Mohammad?
Those who die in Jihad will immediately go to paradise. Probably those who follow the Quran and Mohammad closer than most.
Well, you do save a money on the return ticket.
Sorry.
And want to blend in with your surroundings. …
Note to self, don’t buy any super-saver tickets on Saudi Airlines.
You get to escape your miserable life, strike a blow against [enemy of your choice], become a martyr-hero to others who think like you, go straight to Paradise, and don’t have to deal with the consequences of your actions on account of you being dead.
It’s a win all around if you look at it from the Crazyland side. But as it remains the view of only a very, very tiny percentage of Muslims the “it’s probably because of the Qu’ran/Muhammed” argument doesn’t really fly.*
*sorry about that