http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWPGY4__S8W1GYjEronbHugc8RNA
The War Criminal in the Living Room
Yep. It’s sure not “crazy” to butcher a few hundred thousand more while the world sits, watching idly bye.
And no, I don’t want to hear any complaints about “blowback” as surely there won’t be any. Iranians? Cowering sheep calmly waiting to be slaughtered.
In some Americans’ deluded minds anyway.
More fuel for this fire:
We have an early reverberation within the right-wing echo chamber, with Oliver North staking a position on how much weaponry Iran ought to have that is diametrically opposed to that which his actions 20 years ago might have suggested…
Yeah, Ollie, Congress woke up to the threat from Iran years ago, which is why they fried your ass for arming them.
The question is not whether Iran is a threat, or that American military might, competently applied in sufficient amounts, could deal with that threat, but whether the US military’s current chiefs have those amounts and that competence at their disposal.
There are those other than the OP who think Bush is ramping up the rhetoric to get around the fact that he has no congressional support. UK’s Telegraph says today:
In that same article, they review a Heritage Foundation-funded war game that explored the possibility of bombing strategic positions along with such an action’s aftermath:
You mean the financial problems within the US. We still get suicide bombers and the rest of the world still has double-priced oil as a result of our rash act, but other than that, everything’s peachy. Fire away!
Of course, the Pentagon’s plans, taking into account that ANY action against Iran is likely to provoke such retaliation, apparently thinks they might as well go for broke, as their standing Iran plan calls for a complete destruction of their military in three days, according to today’s UK Sunday Times:
This picture couldn’t get more rosy if he’d declared Iranians would hail us as liberators!
It’s only an act of war if they drop a few bombs on us, right?
Looks like George Packer is taking the possibility of a September rollout at least semi-seriously:
For anyone who wants to read a semi-detailed analysis of different assault options with regards to Iran I might suggest (WARNING: PDF)this report by Plesch and Butcher. I’d also highly recommend Scott Ritter’s “Target Iran: The Truth About the White House’s Plans for Regime Change,” or listen to his available talks on youtube and C-SPAN (a nice talk with Seymour Hersh is available via his Wiki page, for example).
We’ve had carrier groups in the Persian Gulf since the early 80s, if not before. Every year there are rotations in and out of the region and when they overlap there are some extra ships. This is usually when the dire predictions of an imminent strike on Iran are made. Is it possible it’ll happen soon? Sure. But this point in particular isn’t a reason to think so, since it’s nothing new.
Ditto.
This is correct. I believe if that happened to us we would call the country doing so…what was it? Oh yeah, a state sponsor of terrorism. Some may even call it an act of war. Using our logic, Iran has the right to invade the United States, topple our leadership, and institute a new form of government of their choosing.
Altered in what way? I believe we’ve always reserved that right, especially with regards to bunker buster tactical nuclear weapons, sometimes called usable nukes. As the Democratic POTUS candidates like to say, “nothing is off the table.”
Has it actually intensified? I’d have to see some documentation to believe so. It seems about the same as, say, last year. I could be wrong, and there was the recent holocaust comment from Bush, but I can’t remember a time when he and the rest of the political apparatus weren’t worried about “the Iranian problem.”
Well, the AUMF is pretty nebulous and gives Bush a lot of leeway. It allows the President:
When Bush conflates every problem in the Middle East into one big bad bogeyman and constantly references 9/11 and terrorism to the high heavens, it’s not purely for domestic consumption. Of course, if push came to shove, this isn’t even really needed – if he wanted, he could bomb any country he wishes for weeks on end before having to report with Congress. But can you imagine the Congress asking for restraint while our service members are taking hostile fire? It’s unthinkable to me. Or what if we put boots on the ground to “help defend the new nation of Khuzestan from the aggression of the Iranians." You support their freedom, don’t ya? Why do you hate liberty? Either way, it’s like a bear trap, where once we’re in we’re stuck and not getting out without a lot of pain and it might involve chewing off our foot.
As with Iraq, the proliferation issue is at best a red herring. The main issue is regime change and regional transformation. The idea is to institute a massive bombardment by air to perform a decapitation strike and turn Iran’s military to dust, then the populace will rise up and overthrow the theocracy and later invite Americans in for tea. It’s more fantastical than the rose petals the Iraqis were supposed to throw at us, if only for the fact it’s supposed to happen by aerial attack alone (with maybe some special forces operations here and there, but no serious invasion by any means).
Yes, that’s the luxury of being the POTUS and CinC of the most powerful military in the world. It’s also why we should be extremely careful who we elect to the highest office of the land.
If by “the people’s representatives” that mean Congress, I’m confident they would overwhelmingly support an attack on Iran. They recently voted 96-0 on a Lieberman amendment which pretty much stated flat out that Iran has repeatedly attacked our forces in Iraq and must be dealt with. Of course, there was an addendum at the end saying it shouldn’t be construed as a casus belli. Uh huh.
There was also Senator Webb’s amendment in the Iraqi supplemental earlier this year to prohibit all funding for military action with Iran. Or maybe it required Bush to specifically ask Congress permission before doing so, I forget exactly what happened either way, but the end result was that it was flatly rejected by the Dem leadership.
It’s also impossible to ignore the rhetoric flowing from both sides of the narrow political spectrum represented in D.C. It’s conventional wisdom among the beltway that Iran is a serious threat which must be confronted in some way.
The main reason I’m skeptical of an imminent bombardment of Iran is due to the blowback. Sure, there are narrow interests in the United States who would stand to benefit, but unlike Iraq the repercussions of attacking Iran could cause serious economic harm to some extremely influential establishments.
Of course, there are scenarios where such a check could fail to rein in such an attack: 1) The administration believes establishing American hegemony in central Asia in the long term is more important to the national security of the United States than the short term economic fall out. That is to say, acting now will be painful, but not as painful as if Iran falls into the sphere of influence of China, India and the other countries in the region establishing local energy networks and political independence from Washington D.C. 2) They believe they have devised a plan wherein the blowback can be minimized. 3) The Bush administration have cut themselves loose and are no longer influenced by said interests with regards to Iran. This could happen in concert with the other points, but it’s worth considering and is somewhat frightening since it could mean a complete ideological meltdown of pure revenge, mafia style. Iran, the thinking goes, was never punished for the Islamic revolution against our puppet, the hostages, and basically the snatching away of an important client state.
But, boiled down, there are only three reasons to saber-rattle a paranoid. One, you have an exquisite intuitive sense of how far to take it without going so far as to provoke the unexpected, a finely wrought sense based on a thorough understanding of the nature of said paranoid. May we dismiss this prospect out of hand? Moving on, numero two-o, you really do want to start a war, but want the grace of plausible deniability: he spit on my shoes, so I shot him in the belly.
Or, number three, you’re just plain stupid.
Has anyone considered the multiple benefits possible from a detente with Iran? Just wondering, because there seem to be several obvious areas of shared interest.
First, Iran is Shia, AlQ is virulently anti-Shia. They would make an excellent ally in our struggle in Afghanistan, should we ever decide to revisit that debacle. Second, we might be able to offer them a deal on nukes: we will swear never to attack, scouts honor! So long as Iran doesn’t actually attack us or Israel, they can make all the apocalyptic speeches they like. Bring in China, Russia, India as conferrees, and as much guarantors as they may wish.
If Iran wants to build a pipeline north to China or Russia, we can offer them Halliburton’s assistance, as a gesture of good will. But if Iran feels no threat from us, they may very well decide to stick to the tried and true Persian Gulf shipping lanes. If the Chinese insist on building a pipeline, the Iranians can shrug and accept, but are not compelled to invest. Tie up Chinese capital, keep them out of mischeif.
Bolster the position of those people in Iran that we really want in power, the moderates, the secular, the sane. For the extremist Iranian Islamist, the enmity of the Great Satan is manna from heaven, its the gift that keeps on giving, they must thank Allah twice a day that he made GeeDub President of the US.
If Iran is not actively hostile to the US, why should we care how much influence it has over Shia Iraqis, which influence is likely to wane if they are not Shia united against the foe, but Persians and Arabs with their own selfish interests. If the Iraqi Shia control the south, they will sell us the oil. If some alliance of Iranian and Iraqi Shia control the south, they will sell us the oil.
Seeking a diplomatic modus vivendi with Iran makes perfect sense. Alas.
The Great Decider doesn’t do nuance. Or Diplomacy.
Cite for the last time the US had three carriers converge on The Persian Gulf – rotations or not:
Stennis, Nimitz and Bonhomme Richard Enter the Persian Gulf
U.S. rotates carrier to Persian Gulf amid rising Iran tensions
– bolding mine.
Not business as usual, is it?
Couldn’t possibly be “ditto” when it’s a new bomb specifically designed as to be the most powerful bunker-buster in the world. Makes the MOAB look like a little boy by comparison:
Stealth bombers to get bunker-nobbling weapons
– bolding mine.
Don’t have the time ATM to go through your other points, but for an answer to change in official American Defense Policy, search for the radical pre-9/11 graduation speech, Bush gave at West point in '01 — and compare it to the PNAC’s mission statement. 90 degree switch, from responding to aggression to preserving the righ to launch “pre-emptive” strikes.
Lastly, and I’ve already done once upthread, take look at the headlines and the way Bush speaks of/to Iran.
More later…if I have time.
Take care.
This bears repeating. George Packer is a serious analyst. Kevin Drum notes that these rumors fly every few months and nothing pans out. Todd Gitlin thinks we should take such worse case scenarios (regarding Bush admin behavior) seriously. Better safe than sorry. Remember who we’re dealing with: does anybody think that failing to plan for post-invasion Iraq was a good idea? Known experts in that field were intentionally passed over, so as to not compromise the rush to war.
I commend BrainGlutton for his early catch.
That said, IntTrade currently puts the probability of airstrikes on Iran at 20% – below the August average, but well above a 5-10% de minimus threshold. Those crying “Conspiracy!” should place a bet. Those who don’t think that airstrikes would be a disaster should review the 2004 wargame sponsored by The Atlantic Magazine.
No worries: within the week the noise either will or will not materialize. I’m guessing “No”, but if I’m wrong expect more articles like this one (London Times)
Early catch… of what? A rumor? Like that fashion blogger who caught wind that Castro is dead and the Miami police were stifling the news until they could mobilize the riot troops?
Surely you can’t give credit for the beginning of the propaganda campaign against Iran, because the only campaign I can see is one of chatter among bloggers who always think that the next war on Iran is just around the corner, and a few number of others who say that something could happen. In either case, I’m not seeing these reports as examples of particularly good journalism.
I am leaning towards the idea that the sabre-rattling dance is part and parcel with the propaganda offensive outlined in another thread. The Bushiviks are hoping to focus attention on AlQ ("…being defeated in Anbar!..") and Iran ("…we’ll get tough with them and they’ll back off!..") in order to concoct some victory.
Such schemes are inherently dangerous, of course. But the Bushiviks apparently regard such risk as acceptable.
Spencer Ackerman of TPM Media gives us the lowdown. Cheney is trying to soften up the Pentagon, since the Joint Chiefs think that fighting a third war of choice is nuts.
The AEI is on board. Reuel Marc Gerecht has a sympathetic Newsweek piece; Gingrich and Woolsey are planning speeches and panels (the usual clash of civilization stuff).
More to the point, Bush can claim that since he’s declared Iran to be a terrorist operation, he can claim authority bomb 'em, following the September 18, 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force in Afghanistan. Dubious? Sure, but when have legalities stopped this administration?
That said, bombing odds at IntTrade are only up to 22% now, so there’s no need to panic.
inTrade wasn’t too close on the 2k6 election predictions. :dubious:
It should be noted that the provision mentioned – about the President taking action to prevent terrorism – appears in the preamble of the AUMF and therefore does not carry the force of law. The actual operative part of the resolution requires that the President find that the target of the military operation be connected to the 9-11 attacks in the manner laid out in the law.
If one simply wanted to make the case that the President feels the Constitution gives him sufficient authority to bomb another country, then that’s one thing. But saying that the 9-11 use of force resolution gives him carte blanche to bomb any terrorists is simply inaccurate. And if I haven’t said this before, if the President tried to start yet another war cloaked in 9-11 rhetoric, I think he’d be laughed out of the room and probably straight to the Senate for his trial.
He might think it well worth the gamble, the view from the bubble, and all. Clearly, he has enormous faith in waving the bloody shirt and the “rally-round-The Leader-in-war!” meme. He might believe he could get away with it, that the Senate won’t act until he presents a fait accompli: total victory in the ME.
I’d like to believe that, but the esxperience of helplessly watching Bush get away with one horrible thing after another for six years has worn away any vestige of complacency I might once have possessed.
Not sure if it’s worth commenting now but Ravenman:
Kevin Drum is a blogger for… The Washington Monthly, a tree-based magazine. But he’s a generalist, as is Gitlin (who I linked to because he had decent links). George Packer is a specialist and author of The Assassins’ Gate: America in Iraq (2005), a respected tome. He writes for the online edition of the New Yorker. Ok, technically they are bloggers, but Packer at least is a journalist.
At any rate, the predictions appear to be gaining strength, judging from my Ackerman link. So I retain my praise for BrainGlutton for his early catch, as well as his appropriate circumspection.
--------- And if I haven’t said this before, if the President tried to start yet another war cloaked in 9-11 rhetoric, I think he’d be laughed out of the room and probably straight to the Senate for his trial.
Well, the Dems got outplayed with regards to FISA this summer, so I wouldn’t underestimate this admin’s tactical skill with Congress and public opinion.
I thought they called the Republican loss. http://www.forecastingprinciples.com/Political/election_2006.html
At any rate, those who think that the Bush admin would never ever in a million-gazillion years bomb Iran by March 2008 (or allow Israel to do so) could make a nice pile of loot via Tradesports. Personally, I put the odds at ::checks online:: 20%.