So I’ve been in the UK for the past few months but I’m going home next month and I was thinking about writing something about being over here for the paper I was working for in New England. Specifically about the perception of America/Bush etc. over here. Which I have to say has been pretty negative in my experience (not that anyone has been rude to me, y’all don’t seem to have much problem differenciating between AMERICA and an American )
But I thought as I have this wonderful resource at my finger tips, I’d ask here too. UK Dopers, what’s your perception of America? How has it changed since Bush? Iraq? How do you feel about Blair being in bed with him? Anyone want to say anything nice about him :eek: ?
I hate to say this but my perception of America (especially middle-America) has changed since bush. I am absolutely dumbfounded that so many people still support him.
My perception of those Americans is of people blinded by their love of George Bush.
I can’t honestly think of anyone I know expressing any enthusiasm of any world leader. The nearest would be “Who cares how he smokes cigars” and affectionately referring to “Red Ken”
But I think my friends and family are (a) rather too cynical and (b) left, putting them a bit behind.
I have always felt safe assuming anyone I met would hate Bush - justifiably or not.
I’ve read about that somewhere–that Europeans, as seen in the recent EU elections, are getting cynical about all their politicians. Guess some of it rubs off to us.
I guess I’m trying to determine if, while I doubt we were ever as beloved as we liked to think we were :dubious: , if Bush has caused as be a downturn as is it seems to me he has.
Continued support for Bush confirms to many Europeans what they’ve always suspected about Americans; they don’t give a wet slap about the rest of the world. Bush could march over and invade Europe for all they care, as long as its done without American casualties. All other countries are jealous of America and very far away, so who cares.
I know this isn’t the case (well, not for all Americans ) but that’s how it looks. Bush lied (or was willfully ignorant) to get a reason to flatten another country, for the oil. That’s as plain on the nose on his face. So it worries us that a large percentage of Americans don’t have a problem with that.
There’s also the obvious fact that Bush isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the toolbox. Yet he’s in charge. It worries us that no-one has a problem with this either. We may hate them, but we like to think that our politicians fools. Blair hasn’t emerged unscathed from his little Iraqi escapade, but he doesn’t come over like a dim-wit, so we can at least hope he’s not screwing up everything.
Whatever their politics (or stance about Iraq), I think it’s reasonably safe to say that Bush is not held in high regard by the average Brit. Certainly far less than his father or Reagan.
This is a reasonable assumption, in the UK or in Ireland (except when talking to American expats, when I try to keep schtum unless the subject comes up).
With very few exceptions, we hate him. I myself feel a visceral dislike of the man whenever I see him on TV. This is a rather emotive response, and not one I am proud of or that I can justify when addressing the subject logically, in comparison to other unpleasant world leaders.
I think Bush is widely distrusted over here - I don’t know anybody who thinks of him as either a clever, or an honest, man.
And a lot of the displayed attitudes of the US over the Iraq war have, as Futile Gesture pointed out, made the US look insular and parochial, and (worse, from our point of view) committed to putting its own interests first, whatever the cost to anyone else … If you don’t really care about Iraqi national sovereignty, why should we believe you’d care about ours? Launching an invasion based on unconvincing (and, it turned out, entirely specious) evidence … that’s kind of alarming. (Especially as some of you still seem to think the evidence was convincing … )
Ah, well, you see why I’m asking the question then.
Hmmm…I remember a dinner party I went to right after I came here…at the house of a conservative MP, in fact. And the akward silence that followed my being asked what I thought of Bush. I got the impression had I said I supported him, they simply wouldn’t have know what to say to me.
It would be interesting if when the UK posters answered this they said where they stood in the political spectrum, I suspect that many of the people who dislike him so intensely are on the left of the spectrum. Am I right? These people hated Reagan with a passion too (remember the “gone with the wind” poster?). Conversely I thought Clinton a wanker of the first water.
From a firmly right of centre perspective, I really don’t see why he is so disliked. On Iraq, the country was pretty split at the time, and still is. I think it was right and still is, although many don’t.
I would rather have Bush as peresident than Kerry (from what I know of him).
I wouldn’t vote Labour if my life depended on it, so my view on Blair and Bush isn’t really that relevant. For what it’s worth I am happy that Blair is on-side with Bush.
When amongst Tories; don’t confuse a general air of superiority about the Americans and the American system with a disagreement with the policies of the US Govt. Lots of us think Bush is a moron. Also his religious mania is spooky from here. That doesn’t mean we disagree with his actions.
The most pro-tory media in the UK are the Daily Telegraph and the Spectator. Both are solidly behind Bush (Mark Steyn is a star columnist in both).
However has my opinion of America changed under Bush - yes it’s improved.
Clinton was too busy getting rim-jobs from fat birds to go after the people who attacked the WTC, US embassies etc. At least Bush has the balls to go after them. Whether he is going about it in the right way is another matter.
Of course there’s a lot I don’t like about the current administration, specifically around free trade and similar areas.
Clinton wasn’t a wanker. He had someone take care of that job
The Bush person just has always smacked of insincerity. There is a world of dictators out there…hmmmmmmmmm Iraq has a shitload of oil. Pick a dictator, any dictator. Yep Oil Dude will do.
Clinton SEEMED to be more world friendly. He might have been bullshiting but he made America appear to be more user friendly. Clinton didn’t seem to thump the world with the “US is best” stick.
Bush is scary. Wayyyyyyyyyy down in the arse end of the world we debated Iraq. Could we be further away? Could we still be that dedicated to an ally who dumped us. Yes we thunk and thunk about it :D. We never said no before. We currently have a leftish govt. We said no. We were even soundly told off by our biggest friend…Australia. I was proud of my govt though.
After the “war was won” we said count us in, in the clean up. 61 Kiwi personnel are there now. I hear some people say 'Hmmmmmmmmmpfffffffff 61!!!" We are a country of 4 mill. We have never had many to offer but we always offered what we had.
I object to one single NZer going off to Iraq. There are so many bullies/tyrants/horrible bastards that WE are not fixing/helping/aiding that there is NO single good reason for Saddam to be picked out (Zimbabwee anyone?,hmmm Sudan, North Korea etc etc)
I am very glad that I don’t come from the “Greatest country in the world” place…seems like a whole lot of pressure.
Ok. Yes Bush changed my opinon of the American GOVT for the worse.
Long live lying about BJ’s. The only person that should have been cranky forgave him.
I don’t know if you’ve read this thread so I’ll just repost the link to the YouGov poll that I linked to there from November 2003, when Bush visited Britain. As I said in that thread, I’ve not been able to find any more recent solid cites, but, anecdotally from personal experience at least, I would say that particularly since the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, opinion of Bush in Britain and the rest of Europe is even lower than figures given there.
I was born and raised in a Conservative family, would never vote Labour (Tony Blair IMHO is a repugnant sleazebag who wouldn’t know what the truth was if it smacked him upside the head and stole his wallet) or LibDem (bunch of bloody do-gooders), and personally, I find Bush’s policies, at least those we hear about, are scarily right-wing. They also tend to smack of totalitarianism (The Patriot Act) and/or bigoted intolerance (gay rights, abortion etc.). Unemployment under Bush is very high and he has introduced ridiculous tax cuts that only benefit his corporate cronies at a time when, thanks to his illegal war, the nation is sorely in debt and ought to be raising taxes to help itself out of the hole he dug for it.
Then of course there is the Iraq war. An illegal mess thrust upon us through lies, deceit and misinformation that has only resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent soldiers not to mention Iraqi civillians, and also looks to have been a great recruiting advert for Al Qaeda and other radical Muslim groups.
And Bush says he can’t think of any mistakes he’s made… :rolleyes:
Yeah, you could pretty much say I dislike him. Or possibly something much, much stronger.
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