Yes, but that is a seperate issue idependant of military action. The question is not “Did we put the best person in charge”, the question is “Was military liberation and temporary occupation of Iraq the right thing to do”
Lehrer kind of disappointed me. He needed to stand up for himself and control the run ons.
I’m torn–should I watch Charlie Rose or TDS?
Wait — a post just above said FOX gave the debate to Kerry. Just “hammered” Kerry on that single issue? If so that’s a whole lot to overcome.
Well,
I must say that Kerry smiled throughout the debate while Bush grimaced. Bush also spend a great deal of time taking about Kerry: a sign of a loser.
Um, audio’s back on. Am I watching a free Bruce Cougar Mellensteen concert? That sucks. I hate Bruce Cougar Mellensteen.
Wait: whew. Audio AND video have been cut.
(And yes, I always sit through all the credits, too.)
No, but you are obviously watching a different Fox than I am. What they SAID was the Bush keep hammering (as in repetitively, over and over again, blah blah blah…get it?) about Iraq.
Fox said that Kerry pretty much won on points when I was watching it. They went over some of the talking points, but most were critical of Bush, saying he missed several opportunities…and I agree. He was much better on his feet and Bush missed several chances to score some points on Kerry.
-XT
i noticed the eye blinks in past speeches. the faster he blinks, the less likely what he is saying turns out to be correct. he blinked very rapidly when he discussed the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction in iraq, and whe he waffles about the reason for the iraqi invasion.
i would imagine he is a terrible poker player with a tell like that…
When this is all over, the people of Iraq will live in a fundamentalist Islamic republic, presided over by the more extreme elements of the Shiite majority, loosely allied with Iran. It doesn’t matter whether we pull out tomorrow, next week, next month, or a few years from now - six months later, following a brief but exceedingly bloody civil war, someone like al Sadr will be in the catbird seat.
Truly a fine outcome for the interests of the U.S. and the rest of the world.
I’m pretty sure I heard “hammered.” It was in spin alley. Some blond dude was talking to a member of Kerrys team. Might’ve misheard though
Does the Straightdope love FOX (for the debate) or what!!!
A take from a foreigner:
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Kerry did a reasonably good job, I’d say seven and a half out of ten. He almost never looked at the camera, and I thought he spent just a few too many minutes babbling about the United Nations. He didn’t repeat the basic shortcomings of the Bush administration enough; his mantra should have been “we haven’t caught Osama, nukes in Korea, mess in Iraq” over and over and over. He said all those things but he should have repeated them early in his closing statement and a few more times throughout the debate.
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Bush was generally terrible, but only if you’re reasonably open minded. He did keep repeating the basic mantras that appeal to his base, which for him is all he needs to do; look folksy and masculine. However, it wasn’t nearly as good as his performances in 2000.
Bush was smart to not criticize Kerry’s character when that question came up.
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I agree the debate was more direct and effective than most previous debates.
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Lehrer wrote GREAT questions but he should not have interrupted to restate the candidates’ positions. If there’s ambiguity, ask another question or let it hang.
They did say ‘hammered’…but not in the context you were saying. As I said, they didn’t mean he beat Kerry on Iraq…but that he hammered away repetatively on Iraq. Thats something we can all agree on, as Bush pretty much ‘hammered’ away on a few select theme’s for the entire debate.
-XT
I’m gonna agree with you for once, Sam: I give Kerry only a slight edge in this one. I think he missed a few nice opportunities. Like when Bush wondered aloud about how Kerry was going to pay for all those programs. Kerry could have responded, “Well, we know how you’ve paid for everything, Mr. President: you’ve mortgaged America from the foundation right up to the rafters.”
There were maybe three times when Kerry sounded like he was speaking from the heart. (I’ll have to wait on the transcript before saying what they were.)
I think he was at his best when he included specifics - not just because he sounded like he knew what he was talking about, but because anytime you’re making any sort of case, being able to link between your overall plan and at least some of the details that are part of it, strengthens how your ideas are perceived. You can’t be all up in the air, and you can’t get lost in the details. You want both, and you want them connected. He did that well on a few occasions, but he could have done it a lot more than he did.
I was disappointed that, when Bush kept on mentioning those 100,000 Iraqi police, Kerry didn’t point out that only 8000 of them have been through the full 8-week training.
Hey, if Bush can borrow, why can’t Kerry? (I’m serious, despite the flippant tone.)
But if we’re going to stay in Iraq, we’re going to need more troops of our own to deal with the rest of the world, period - even if our allies come through in Iraq. Not paying for them is simply not an option.
Can’t argue with you there.
I think the race has been tightening, and that will continue. My bet is that Bush will still be ahead on balance after this one, by an average of 1-2 points in those polls that are weighted for party ID, or have semi-believable numbers in that regard.
I think both candidates had some funny body language issues, but I’d hate to see that become an issue.
What effect, if any, will this have on the polls? There was some talk that if Kerry didn’t handle this well or if Bush looked really good that this could have been the knockout blow. It didn’t happen and Kerry definitely won this one. So…will this effect the polls?
-XT
WTH, I’m going with TDS. It’s…okay so far.
I agree that Kerry won, but I’m sure the Bush supporters I know will spin it away.
I don’t think anyone around here is actually undecided… but, is anyone undecided? If so, did this have any effect on you?
Does Bush hate democracy or what? He kept hammering on that crazy idea that having a different opinion about the war in Iraq is tantamount to treason. “It demoralizes the troops and emboldens the enemy.”
The sad thing is, I’m sure that line will play well with people who are attracted to its “patriotism” without perceiving its fundamental anti-patriotism.
I had my own biases going in, but I think Kerry was very strong near the end. However, as Sam Stone says, Kerry has that advantage of being able to claim, “I would have done it this way” without having to back it up or prove it.
Bush had definite strong moments, but he stammered too much.
Not too much. Then again, I was trying to multitask and was only half-listening to the debate.