Pre-debates debate

OK, both the Democratic and Republican conventions are over and done with. The next big campaign events to look forward to are the debates. The Commission on Presidential Debates (http://www.debates.org) has scheduled four:

Note that all of these are located in swing states – meaning that it would be an unacceptable risk for either candidate (coughBushcough), for any reason, to try to beg off or plead other commitments. The voters in that state might feel disappointed and/or insulted. So I expect there will, in fact, be four debates. Let’s speculate: Who will do better? What will Bush say? What will Kerry say? How much of a stink will Nader be able to raise about his inevitable exclusion? And how will the debates affect the polls? Will Cheney squaring off against Edwards be a mere footnote, or something significant?

I’ve always heard Kerry is a good debater, and he seemed to handle himself well before he locked up the nomination, so I expect he will do very well. Bush did fairly well (from what I remember) the last time around in the debates he had with Gore and came out the marginal winner. It should be interesting…especially to see the response on this board. :slight_smile:

I suppose it will all come down to what is asked of them and how they handle themselves. If Kerry’s record is as strong as folks on this board are making it out to be, then he really needs to hammer on that to change the various perceptions that the Republicans have pinned on him (he was a fool for not doing this at his own convention IMHO). He needs to portray himself as decisive and knowlegeable at these debates, and he needs to decisively win them…hands down. I’m very interested in what he will say reguarding his domestic agenda, what he will say about his plans for what to do with Iraq and Afghanistan, terrorism, the environment…hell just about everything, as I think he hasn’t come out strongly on this yet. I’m interested in what Bush will say also when asked the pointed questions I expect him to be asked.

I’m greatly looking forward to these debates…my own decision of if I will vote for either of these candidates will come out of them. If neither one satisfies (which is the result I expect) then I’ll cast my vote with the third parties and just grit my teeth for the next 4 years.

-XT

Well, that’s the problem, isn’t it? Bush, as the incumbent, already has an established public image. Up to now, Kerry has been defined in the public mind by his own ads but also by the Bush ads, and ads of Bush allies like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and by the charges that speakers at the Republican National Convention threw at him. The debates will be Kerry’s first real chance to establish himself as a public personality before a worldwide audience – but now he will have to divide his time between refuting all that Republican misinformation, and saying what he will actually do as president. Will the debate format give him enough time to do both?

I just went back and googled a bunch of the democratic debates to see what commentators had to say about Kerry. He seems to have acquitted himself well. He didn’t slam-dunk any of them, but he didn’t lose any of them, either. Kerry was also president of the debate club at Yale.

George Bush has never lost a debate. He stomped Ann Richards twice, beat Al Gore at least twice and tied him once.

On pure skills, I’d say it’s a toss-up.

The next question is, who has the best prep team behind him? On this, I’d say it’s Bush, hands-down. So far, the Kerry campaign has seemed to me to be horribly inept. Bush, on the other hand, sits at the head of perhaps the best political machine we’ve ever seen. Advantage: Bush.

The next question is, who has the weaker record, or the most liabilities he’ll have to square away? This one’s a toss-up. Bush is vulnerable on Iraq, Kerry is vulnerable on his record and anti-war activism. It depends on what kinds of questions they are asked. However, Bush is a known, and Kerry is unknown. The voters have largely made up their minds about Bush’s performance on Iraq, his guard history, etc. They still aren’t sure about Kerry. So Kerry’s flank is more vulnerable than Bush’s. Advantage: Bush.

Then there are the moderators of the debates - all of whom will be pro-Kerry. I expect the questions will reflect that. Bush is going to get tougher questions, Kerry more softballs. Advantage: Kerry.

Then there is the expectation game. Bush has always benefitted from low expectations, which has been a major advantage for him. But this time, I’m not sure he has that. In fact, it may be Kerry who gains advantage here - if he debates to a draw, it’ll be seen as a Kerry win. Advantage: Kerry.

Then there’s the media. The mainstream media are begging for a Kerry win, both for partisan reasons and also because it’s more compelling. I expect them to talk up Kerry after the debate no matter what happens. Advantage: Kerry.

So… It’s going to be a good set of debates. Both men have strengths and weaknesses. My money is on Bush, but it’s scared money.

Let’s not forget the Vice Presidential debates, however. Anyone would have to admit that John Edwards is a hell of a speaker. He’s a good trial lawyer, able to convince juries with passion and clarity. I expect him to shine in areas like his summation, opening statement, and other places where he can insert prepared remarks.

Dick Cheney, on the other hand, is a major political heavyweight. He’s a brilliant man, and he knows government and foreign affairs inside and out. He’s got gravitas. So there’s a risk for the Dems that this will be another Dan Quayle moment, with the challenger simply not looking like he could be president. It also remains to be seen how well Edwards can think on his feet when he’s knocked off his script. I expect he’ll be fine, but you never know. Cheney is very, very tough. I honestly think Cheney is going to beat him.

Finally, the last factor is where the race is sitting at that time. The latest TIME poll has Bush taking a double-digit lead over Kerry. If that’s not an outlier, then Kerry is in big trouble already, and he could be WAY down by the time the debates get here. That changes the tone of the debates. Kerry will have to adopt a risky strategy of trying for a race-changing home run. Bush, on the other hand, will be buttoned down and the name of his game will be to simply prevent taking damage. So, we’ll see what happens.

What makes you think that? The debates are organized by the Commission on Presidential Debates, which has been carefully structured to be evenly bipartisan (and, not incidentally, to exclude any third-party representation).

The debate moderators are Charlie Gibson, Jim Lehrer, and Bob Schieffer.

Jim Lehrer is anchor and executive editor of the Newshour on PBS. Charlie Gibson is co-anchor of ABC News Good Morning America. Bob Schieffer is CBS News Chief Washington Correspondent and moderator of Face the Nation. I have never heard a pro-Kerry or anti-Bush bias attributed to any of these journalists – but then, I don’t watch their shows. Cite?

You want a cite for my expectations? Here, let me get my time machine…

What you said was, “Then there are the moderators of the debates - all of whom will be pro-Kerry.” I want a cite for the assertion that Lehrer, Gibson and Schieffer are pro-Kerry.

I agree. I have tried looking for some cites showing some kind of “liberal bias” of these moderators, and have come up empty-handed.

So since this is GD, please back up the claim, or retract the statement.

LilShieste

Here, let me try it this way: I believe that these particular moderators are pro-Kerry. I offer the belief without proof. The source of my belief is 20 years of watching these people in action. Take it or leave it.

I also expect they will try to be unbiased. I also expect they won’t pull it off.

Some things are amenable to cites, and some aren’t. The perception of bias is one of those things. I could point to all sorts of things that I perceive as double standards, If I point to an interview where Jim Lehrer throws softballs at Kerry, you can probably find one where he asked him a tough question. The question of bias is itself a large debate. It can’t be proven or disproven with a cite.

I was also going to ask you back up your statement, “The mainstream media are begging for a Kerry win, both for partisan reasons and also because it’s more compelling.” But in light of the above I guess there’s no point.

Thanks for clearing that up. That’s all I was looking for.

In my mind, if this type of situation went on, and we were able to find a 1:1 ratio of “softball” questions to “hardball” questions, then it would appear that a bias would probably (more than likely) not be present.

But since the bias thing is just your humble opinion, there’s nothing to say except: Nothing has shown me any reason to believe that these moderators will be lenient/show favor towards Kerry, during the debates.

LilShieste

Yes, thats the problem as I see it. Kerry and his campaign have made a major tactical mistake IMHO…and he needs to spend the rest of the time between now and the election correcting that. Especially at the debates. He needs to lay off the Bush counter attackes (or at least not make that his central theme) and concentrate on getting his record out. If he’s proud of it, if he thinks its an asset, he needs to tell his side of the story and define HIMSELF to the American people…not let the Republicans define him.

Will he have time? Yes, I think he will. He’ll almost certainly be asked specific questions about his record as a Senator…he needs to be prepared and to hammer home his record to the America people. He’ll almost certainly be asked WHY he thinks he’s qualified to be president…again, this is his chance to define his record and extoll his virtues (or what he see’s as his primary virtues). He’ll have his chances I think…America will be watching these debates closely. He needs to use them to get out his message. It also wouldn’t hurt if he is able to contrast himself to the President on foriegn policy…especially Iraq. Coming out with the vague assertion that he will work better/more closely with our allies is pretty weak. He needs to really hammer on this as well…what defines a KERRY presidency as far as foriegn policy goes? What defines a Kerry presidency as far as domestic agenda goes. Give specifics…define and contrast.

Frankly I can’t wait for these debates. Its going to be make or break time for both candidate. Bush is up in the polls right now, but that can shift in a heart beat if Kerry hits some home runs. By the same toke, Bush can put Kerry away if Kerry doesn’t play this smarter than he’s played things since his defacto nomination…and certainly not at the DNC or after.

-XT

4 years ago the spin put out was that because Gore was a recognized awesome debater, all Bush had to do to “win” was not get steam rolled. A lot of press about Bush’ lack of debate experience, speaking styles, etc. I think the general perception 4 years ago was that Gore had an unrealistically high standard to meet, and Bush had a rediculously low bar to get over.

Hope that this time around, the american voters are not such spin sheep. Bush has be POTUS for 4 years. I expect a sitting President to have to meet high standards. Let me point out I could care less about debate style and articulation, but there should be hard questions in the debate and both candidates should be held to the same measure and judged on the ocntent/believeability of their answers.

I’ve always used the metaphor that watching Gore and Bush debate was like watching an armless man fight a guy who had both arms tied behind his back. I felt that Gore could have wiped the floor with Bush, but held back, possibly out of fear of looking “mean” or too aggressive. It was a massive mistake on his part, and might have cost him the election (the Florida debacle notwithstanding.)

I don’t think anyone would seriously contend that Bush is verbally quick-on-his-feet. In fact, it’s one of his greatest flaws as a politician. He simply does not express himself well without a script and practice-- which is why he avoids reporters like the plague.

I’m sure they’re doing a hell of a lot of practice runs and prep work, but nothing can really protect him in this case. Kerry will not make the same mistake that Gore did. He knows that Bush is weak in this area, and he doesn’t particularly care about looking mean. (The only people who would really be offended by the gloves coming off at this point wouldn’t be voting for Kerry anyway.) Bush has a lot of weak points, so “winning” this debate should be relatively easy for Kerry.

Whether you agree with his politics or not, Kerry simply has the edge here. Not that I think it will matter in the end. It really doesn’t matter who “wins”-- most people have already made up their minds and won’t be swayed no matter how well the other guy does.

I’m looking forward to the debates for sheer entertainment value alone. That’s all they really are.

Then you’re doomed to defeat, because as of today Bush has an eleven point lead over Kerry. The fact is, the notion that people were solidly in their camps is SO last week. This week, people moved all over the place.

The debates will be important. And you’re right, Kerry is going to come out swinging for the fences, because he can’t win with a draw. He has to take it to Bush hard, and win that confrontation.

I just don’t think it’s going to be anywhere as easy as you think it’s going to be. The notion that Gore could have crushed Bush but just held back is a Democratic conceit. Bush did his damnedest to beat Bush in the first debate, but got hammered because he was TOO aggressive. So then he tried to be nice, and he got hammered because he was TOO nice. In the end, he simply got beat, both of those times. Ann Richards got beat pretty handily by Bush as well. That race is interesting, because Bush took on a completely different manner. All the vocal flubs went away, he stopped the aw-shucks manner, he leaned into the podium when he spoke, and came across clearly and directly.

I think that even after four years you haven’t figured out Bush. His manner feeds your stereotypes, and you continue to underestimate him. It gives him a running advantage, and he knows exactly how to use it.

You did the same with Reagan. He was a stupid pawn who slept in the afternoon. I remember people grimacing when he went to meet Gorbachev, because they were sure that slick modern Russian would take Reagan to the cleaners. I’m sure Gorbachev thought the same thing. But Reagan always managed to have the upper hand. The left couldn’t believe that ‘doddering old man’ could possibly win re-election, and watched him win landslides.

Bush is no Reagan, but they both share that one characteristic - their demeanor feeds into your desire to believe your stereotype. Just like Kerry’s demeanor feeds into the Right’s stereotype of him as a French effete, when he’s anything but. Unfortunately, their bad stereotype isn’t of the sort that is usable as a tactic.

Heh. A typo that’s actually a pretty good line!

Translaton: These guys don’t have a track record of kowtowing to the Republican party and mindlessly accepting everything Bush says. Ergo, they must be biased against him.

Me? I’m not runnning.

I guess that belief depends on how much faith you put in the polls. (And who they were polling that week.) There are way too many factors unaccounted for which makes many polls unreliable at best. Secondly, what people say in a poll is one thing: whether they’ll actually go out and vote is another.

Hell, how many people actually watch the debates anymore, anyway?

I’m not quoting anyone elses’ opinion. That’s what I felt watching it, and I didn’t dislike George Bush at the time. Don’t get me wrong, I wanted Gore to win because I liked his environmental policy, but I believe I had no predjucies or blinding desire for Gore to win the debates that would have colored my judgment of Bush’s preformance.

That’s what Gore’s problem was: he listened to his handlers too much. Had he followed his instincts and kept to the more aggressive line, I think the outcome would have been much different.

I’ve seen Richards speak. I’m not all that surpprised. Not that she’s an idiot or anything, just that she doesn’t seem all that quick-on-the-draw herself.

Perhaps you’re right. I do think of him as not-all-that-bright, and I have seen very little which would contradict that view during his Presidency, and trust me-- I’ve watched.

In what way has he used it? Appearing to be a dim bulb doesn’t strike me as an advantage to him other than appealing to anti-intellectuals. (Which, I will admit, are rather numerous.)

No, I didn’t. I was five years old.