Look here, you dim-witted, block-headed, blinded by your damn “superior morals,” pieces of crap:
No one, I repeat, NO ONE will be destroying any more embryos then what are not already geting destroyed to give researchers stem cells. These stem cells are going to come from embryos that are created as part of the in-vitro fertilization process but not used. They are going to get destroyed NO MATTER WHAT! You hear that? I have to yell so you can hear over the sounds of your constituants calling me a baby killer.
This is the perfect chance for you to show real support for a pro-stem-cell bill, other than the paltry concessions you made for adult stem cells, which are about as effective as dirt for the type of research these scientists want to do. I cannot think of any rational argument as to why anyone can oppose this type of research. No one is gonig to be “killing babies,” they’re not geting embryos from abortions, they are only using ones that would get destroyed anyway.
So, since I cannot fathom a reason as to why any rational person can oppose this, I turn to you to find one for me.
Who, me? Hell, I’m chalking this one up as right wing pandering to stifle his Christian right voting base so that maybe the Pubs can try and focus on something else during the November elections. Throw them a bone now, no matter how not founded in reality it may be, then maybe they can do a little damage control maybe.
That doesn’t make much sense since too many Republicans in Congress want the bill passed. They know better than Bush what they need to do to get re-elected in November. The best explanation I can think of is that he really believes it’s “killing babies”. I think people underestimate the willingness Bush has to go against popular opinion to support his principles. He doesn’t need to pander to his base, after all.
My view; I think he’s simply evil. He enjoys hurting and killing people, and suppressing important medical research will hurt and kill many people, which makes him happy. If he could get away with it, I expect he’d outlaw medical care for everyone besides himself and his fellow rich scum.
Outlaw medical care? Hurting and killing makes him happy? Are you serious? Do you mean to argue that George W. Bush is literally, in the clinical and not rhetorical sense of the word, a psychopathic sadist?
As for the topic at hand, I would be very interested in an argument against stem cell research in light of the facts that–
Frozen embryo stocks are destroyed anyway.
Current human embryonic stem cell lines are apparently suboptimal for research.
Other countries are rapidly making headway in embryonic stem cell research; the United States is already at an early disadvantage should we choose to reenter the field. This is exemplified by a small but siginificant migration of talent from the States to countries more permissive of such research.
Nah, he’s not smart enough to be really evil. He’s less “Ho ho! My wealthy friends and I will prosper by depriving the masses of medical advances, bwahahaha!” than “Killing babies is bad! You can’t do that! I will save those poor, poor babies”. See also “Invading Iraq under false pretenses will give us the chance to seize control of the oil for ourselves and make us millions, bwahahaha!” vs. “My daddy doesn’t like that man. That man tried to hurt my daddy. He’s a bad man!”.
bouv, you have the makings of a decent discussion, here–one which other posters are treating with respect–however your opening had all the venom of a simple rant and you almost got it tossed into the Pit with your vitriol. If you want to discuss a topic, don’t weigh down your OP with invective.
(OTOH, if you want to rant, we can move this to the Pit for you.)
Yes, or a good imitation. I have trouble believing that it’s mere coincidence that his actions are so consistantly nasty and destructive; I’d expect competence to be more random in it’s effects.
It’s a bad political move, at least for his fellow Republicans. I think something like 2/3 of Americans are for stem cell research, so this could hurt his party. Not that that’s a bad thing in my eyes, but I’d rather have the expanded stem cell research than whatever political damage is done to the Republican party.
That’s about right – 63%, according to this poll. Note that even among evangelicals it gets 50% support, and 57% support from Bush voters. In fact, it doesn’t get a majority opposing it from any of the demographic groups listed. (Also note that it’s embryonic stem cell reserach, as there is other stem cell research that doesn’t involve the destruction of embryos.)
So, Bush and Republicans can tell their base that they support stem cell research, as well as protect the rights of frozen, unwanted embryos. It’s a win/win.
The sentence in the article cited in the OP that says that Congress and the Bush administration are about to have their first veto fight is not correct. Bush has threatened the use of the veto before. This administration primarily uses the veto threat as a tool to influence the bill, I think.
I’m still searching around for an answer on this one, but in doing so I came across this posted on the white house web site (use salt grains where appropriate) where it shows presidential support for having the frozen embryos adopted instead of destroyed. Not that this is conclusive evidance that the embryos in question are still viable, this could just be smokescreen. I’m off to keep looking.
