Bush on the Rebound

[Simplicio]

@padabe

Does anyone know offhand what Bush has been doing since leaving office? To the extent that his reputation can be salvaged, I think most of it will hinge on his post-administration actions.

He’s been semi-active in joining (Bill) Clinton fund raising for disaster areas like Haiti, sort of taking his fathers place as Clinton’s traveling buddy. He’s also apparently writing his memoirs, which I imagine takes some time.

I agree he could do his legacy some good by being an active ex-President. I don’t think that will do much to help restore the reputation of his Presidency, but people might hate him less as a human being if he spent his time handing out medications to war-orphans or whatever.

[ElvisL1ves]

@padabe

Does anyone know offhand what Bush has been doing since leaving office?

Not a whole lot, due to age and health. He’s struck up a perhaps-unlikely friendship with Bill Clinton.

[XT]

Is he in bad health? I hadn’t heard that. I thought he was still a relatively young guy (IIRC, he’s only like 14 or 15 years older than I am).

@Squink

You’ve preordered the book though, right?

I wouldn’t even buy it with your money. Not even if it came abridged on audible.com and read with illustrations…

-XT

[ElvisL1ves]

I don’t know of any specific health problems with him, but being 86 years old is a pretty general one. He doesn’t look good on TV anymore.

[XT]

Oh…sorry. You are talking about his daddy. I missed that.

-XT

[Simplicio]

Err…I think people are discussing two different Bushes.

[Chronos]

He’s been semi-active in joining (Bill) Clinton fund raising for disaster areas like Haiti, sort of taking his fathers place as Clinton’s traveling buddy. He’s also apparently writing his memoirs, which I imagine takes some time.

I think it’s traditional for the most recent ex-president of each party to team up for efforts like that. During W’s term, the two most recent ex-presidents were Clinton and H. W., and now the two most recent are W. and Clinton. Once Obama leaves office, it’ll be Obama and W. teaming up for disaster relief.

[XT]

Obama and Bush teaming up will be something to see. Though Obama really will be still a young(ish) guy when he leaves office in 8 years while Bush will be getting up there by that time (he’ll be in his mid-60’s by then IIRC).

-XT

[smithsb]

@xtisme

…
Overall, I can’t imagine Bush ever being considered a successful president, no matter how things pan out in Iraq and Afghanistan (IMHO, no matter what happens in Iraq, Afghanistan will always be a huge Bush failure, regardless). The best he can hope for is a lessening of antipathy over time from some of the less fervent anti-Bush folks. For my part, I’m about in the same place I was when he left wrt my feelings towards the man. Nothing I’ve seen since has thus far changed my overall opinion.

-XT

No argument here with you though I think Iraq was the bigger blunder and political disaster. 4,000+ Americans dead, 30,000+ with permanent disabilities (from head injuries to amputations), another 50,000+ with PTSD, trillion dollars in future medical costs. Probablly another trillion down in military equipment/failed infrastructure rebuilding attempts in Iraq. Pissed off the whole Islamic world for all eternity (what’s left of my life anyway). What was that word Bush used; “Crusade?” He gave the terrorists a training range to develop new and improved tactics. All because he/Cheney/Rumsfield couldn’t get their focus on Afghanistan. Couldn’t be a war president with some Spec Ops guys on camel/horseback and B-52’s as your tough guy symbols. Just had to attack one of “axis of evil” to score points.

I hope he steps out of the country and gets arrested for war crimes. I hear Slobodan Milošević’s cell is open.

The only positive I saw during his presidency was the guest worker program in response to illegal immigration - and that didn’t get through.

[BrainGlutton]

@Simplicio

Err…I think people are discussing two different Bushes.

Meh. Every man of the world knows that one Bush is the same as another.

[XT]

@BrainGlutton

Meh. Every man of the world knows that one Bush is the same as another.

Ha! For the discerning connoisseur, the reality is that they are all different. It’s like saying that every pizza is the same, or ever beer, or every cigar.

-XT

[Tom_Scud]

@Chronos

I think it’s traditional for the most recent ex-president of each party to team up for efforts like that. During W’s term, the two most recent ex-presidents were Clinton and H. W., and now the two most recent are W. and Clinton. Once Obama leaves office, it’ll be Obama and W. teaming up for disaster relief.

Is it really a tradition? I don’t remember anyone doing this before Clinton and Bush (Sr.) - did Bush & Carter do the same kind of thing while Clinton was president?

[Boyo_Jim]

No, I don’t recall any former presidents besides Bush I and Clinton doing it.

[XT]

Bush I and Clinton did it?? :eek:

-XT

[Boyo_Jim]

Yup, there’s a dress with a stain on it.

[Der_Trihs]

@xtisme

Plus, Iraq hasn’t been the unmitigated disaster some folks (including me) were thinking it would be, which has probably helped a bit.

I don’t agree; it IS an unmitigated disaster. It’s just that the disaster is being spun so that “they aren’t actually eating each other in the streets” is portrayed as some sort of success. It’s still a disaster. A huge number of mostly innocent people killed for no gain and a lot of loss.

As far as Nixon goes; not only has Nixon had decades to be rehabilitated, but as bad a President he was, he had actual accomplishments his defenders could point to. Plus, Nixon is dead; that brings in the “you shouldn’t speak ill of the dead” factor. Or consider another President who left under a cloud; Carter. Because of what he’s done since leaving office, he’s managed to rehabilitate himself to “bad as President but a good guy” in the eyes of many; that’s another method of rehabilitation Bush is unlikely to pull off.

Probably the most effective way he could be rehabilitated somewhat is the way his father was; someone even worse taking power.

[XT]

@Der Trihs

I don’t agree; it IS an unmitigated disaster.

The thing is, you aren’t the majority of American’s. Also, there is a difference between ‘disaster’ and ‘unmitigated disaster’. I understand that you don’t see it this way, but surly even you realize that you aren’t exactly a good representative sample of how most American’s view…well, anything.

It’s just that the disaster is being spun so that “they aren’t actually eating each other in the streets” is portrayed as some sort of success.

If it’s being ‘spun’ that way, then it’s Obama et al now doing the spinning.

It’s still a disaster.

Sure. But I think public opinion is starting to shift away from it being an UNMITIGATED disaster, which was my point. There are some glimmers of…well, not hope, but, say, light at the end of the tunnel. Sure, it could and probably is just a train coming the other way, but it’s possible that Iraq won’t forever be the war torn hell that some were portraying it as eternally being a couple of years ago. By and large it’s dropped significantly off of America’s radar, we’ve been successful in pulling out some troops and the whole thing hasn’t gone totally tits up, they managed to have another election, etc. And you know as well as I do that if Iraq actually works out and becomes a stable and prosperous nation (at least by the yard stick of other ME countries), that it’s going to improve Bush’s image, even if it was a total disaster for us to have gone there in the first place. I don’t think it’s going to improve it very much, mind, but it would definitely have a positive impact if it actually happens, at least in the medium term. Long term (which I won’t be around for), my guess is that the late 21st century equivalent of History Channel’s Presidents show is going to have him in the bottom of the pack, regardless.

A huge number of mostly innocent people killed for no gain and a lot of loss.

Well, the ‘no gain’ part is certainly a judgment call, and one that I doubt is universally shared, even by Iraqi’s. Ask a Kurd if there has been ‘no gain’, and you will get a different answer than if you asked, say, a committed Ba’athist…or yourself. Certainly there has been a large number of innocent people killed along with a large number of guilty ones, and, from the US’s perspective I’m failing to see much gain in all this either.

Carter. Because of what he’s done since leaving office, he’s managed to rehabilitate himself to “bad as President but a good guy” in the eyes of many; that’s another method of rehabilitation Bush is unlikely to pull off

Yeah…I have serious trouble seeing Bush going the Carter route. Personally, I think he’s going to be content to generally leave the public eye, do some book deals and speaking engagements, and possibly make the occasional public foray by pairing off with Clinton (and maybe later with Obama) during some disaster or emergency or other.

-XT

[Cisco]

A lot of people on facebook are starting to post that picture of W. smiling and waving with “Miss Me Yet?” written underneath it. Of course, I think that picture was made about 2 seconds after Obama took office. One person posted a picture of a billboard with it, but I’m guessing that was photoshopped (anybody know?)

I hated Clinton when he was president, and then Bush took office and I slowly started realizing what a disaster he (W) was, and how Great Clinton was. Ever since Obama took office I’ve been re-evaluating Clinton again, and I’ve got to say I don’t much care for his presidency. Cool guy, but a lot of mistakes, IMO*. The people who are dreaming of GW now might be in a stage similar to the one I was in with regards to Clinton during the Bush years.

*Might be largely attributed to the Republican takeover of congress in 1994, which I’m praying to RamKrishnaBuddhaGanesh doesn’t happen to Obama.

[Der_Trihs]

@xtisme

The thing is, you aren’t the majority of American’s. Also, there is a difference between ‘disaster’ and ‘unmitigated disaster’. I understand that you don’t see it this way, but surly even you realize that you aren’t exactly a good representative sample of how most American’s view…well, anything.

That nearly boils down to what I was saying; that the disaster is being spun. And since as far as I can tell the Iraqis and us are worse off in all ways than before our conquest, I fail to see where the “mitigation” is.

@xtisme

If it’s being ‘spun’ that way, then it’s Obama et al now doing the spinning.

And?

@xtisme

Sure. But I think public opinion is starting to shift away from it being an UNMITIGATED disaster, which was my point.

Irrelevant; that again boils down to it being spun; not to it not being an unmitigated disaster.

@xtisme

And you know as well as I do that if Iraq actually works out and becomes a stable and prosperous nation (at least by the yard stick of other ME countries), that it’s going to improve Bush’s image, even if it was a total disaster for us to have gone there in the first place.

Considering that such an Iraq would almost certainly be a mortal enemy of America and a source of terrorism and everything else they can think of to hurt us, I doubt it. Given what we have done to them, a stronger Iraq is likely to do anything but burnish Bush’s image. It’s more likely that in say 2030 we’ll be hearing talk such as how if Bush hadn’t invaded it, Iraq would still be secular and Iraqi terrorists wouldn’t have set off poison gas or a nuke in New York. What we did in Iraq is likely to have massive negative effects for generations.

[Marley23]

@Cisco

A lot of people on facebook are starting to post that picture of W. smiling and waving with “Miss Me Yet?” written underneath it. Of course, I think that picture was made about 2 seconds after Obama took office. One person posted a picture of a billboard with it, but I’m guessing that was photoshopped (anybody know?)

It was real. I wonder if it was advance publicity for the book.