He didn’t portray his decision as harsher than it actually is. Bush only stated an opposition to preference systems, not an opposition to any use of race whatsoever. Assuming Powell’s opinion is the controlling one, Bakke stands for the proposition that race may only be considered as a “plus factor” between candidates who are otherwise more or less equally qualified. A system that genuinely conformed to that standard wouldn’t be so much a quota system as it would one that just used race as the final tiebreaker. The Michigan system clearly goes far beyond that standard.
The problem is that a true tiebreaker system would not produce enough minority university students because, as a group, blacks and Hispanics have standardized test scores and GPAs well below most white and Asian applicants – there simply aren’t enough of them at the margins for a tiebreaker system to come into play very often. A Bakke-conforming system would not make up for this gap; thus, the dishonest attempts to sell a de facto quota system as something else.
I can move to an underrepresented county in Michigan and pick up a fast 16 points. Nobody could stop me. People move all the time.
I can workout in the gym and on the track a lot and become a scholarship athlete. 20 points within the reach of a really, really dedicated kid. Lots of dorky kids become great athletes.
I can study all the time that I’m not working out and get a good GPA, let’s say a 3.5 because I fall asleep in class sometimes because I’m tired from working out. I get 70 points. Plenty of examples of kids that study a lot and achieve.
Socio-economic Disadvantage, no problem. I love going to Vegas, I can be disadvantaged for the rest of my life after one fun weekend at the craps table. Rack up another 20 for Doc. Lots of people are disadvantaged because of their own choices.
High SAT score? Heck yes. If I take the SAT 10 times and study very hard starting in first grade I should be able to pull a 1300. Bingo, 11 points.
Wait a minute, Underrepresented Racial/Ethnic Minority? Gosh, I’m a white kid ! No matter how hard I study, no matter how hard I work, no matter how I polish my athletic skills I can never, never, ever get any points for that.
Hmmm…seems like that denies me an equal chance to get points only because of my race.
GeeDubya is taking an unequivocal moral stance here, like any Leader of Men, what’s got that Vision Thing.
He’s saying that the conservatives are totally right here, nobody should ever be the victim of diverse recriminations just because they’re white, and he is entirely against it!
He’s saying that liberals are totally right here, that diversity is very important and action must be taken to ensure that minorities have every opportunity to get that little extra bit of help that they’ve been so long denied.
Those are his principles, and by golly! he’s sticking to them!
While not actually supporting UoM’s position (since it does smell like a quota to me), I would point out that these statements appear to be factually in error.
From the UoM guidelines:
So the claim that a “white kid” can get none of the “race” points is not true. The same points are available to the white kid if s/he are found to be at a socioeconomic disadvantage (e.g., living in the inner city with poor schools or rural schools that are typically underfunded), attends a predominantly minority school, or for athletic achievement, (with the possibility of some discretionary points). Of the five ways that a kid can get “minority” points, four of them are open to white kids.
(If it is demonstrated that UoM has typically ignored the socioeconomic factors and given all the points only to minority applicants, then it would be convincing evidence that UoM is practicing discrimination. As presented in the guidelines, however, race is, indeed, no more than a tie-breaker for equal applicants and that same tie-breaker may be used without regard to race.)
I have to disagree with you there tom. The ‘race’ points are only those that come from ‘underrepresented’ minority status. Those points are unavailable to whites and those minorities that are too good at getting into school. The fact that there may be other ways to earn points does not make the race points any less discriminatory.
In any event, what if we had a system where blacks had the chance to earn points in four out of five ways, but the fith was only open to white students?
I agree that 4 of the 5 ways to get miscellaneous points are open to a white kid. One of them clearly is not.
Please point out to me how my statement that a white kid can never, never, ever get the 20 points for being an “Underrepresented Racial/Ethnic Minority” is “factually in error”.
I’m talking about only the 20 racial/ethnic points here, not the other miscellaneous points.
Seems like this issue has been beaten into the ground on this thread. Anyone care to “wager” on how the Supremes will go on this? I say they’ll strike it down with a 1 vote majority (2 at most).
I think they’ll go with the “need to show that other non race based actions do no work” line of reasoning. But they will be careful to talk about how they recognize the importance of “diversity” (whatever the hell that is).
It is not a separate set of points for each of four or five categories. To the extent that a black kid from the inner city can get 8 or 14 or 20 points for that situation, Eminem can get exactly the same 8 or 14 or 20 points for living in the rougher sections of the east side of Detroit and having to go to Osborn (or whichever high school he attended).
To the extent that a black kid can get 8 or 14 or 20 points for being at socioeconomic disadvantage, s/he cannot collect more points for being black. It is a single pool of points that gives non-white kids one extra tie-breaking consideration.
But Tom surely you recognize that the underrepresented minorities are given more ways to collect those twenty points than others right? In essence the only people who are getting a benefit here are middle class / rich minority students. (i.e. those who can earn 20 points for the color of their skin, but would not qualify under the rubric of socio-economic disadvantage) Are they the ones that deserve AA assistance?
I’ve already expressed that I am not delighted with the program.
I have also pointed out that if UoM is giving all the points one way in practice, regardless of their rules, then they are discriminating.
Given that they claim to be looking for diversity, then encouraging non-white applicants, even from the suburbs, is consistent with that goal. My specific point is that the rules do not give black kids an overwhelming advantage over all others. They give black kids a 5/4 advantage over some subset of white kids and a 5/2 advantage over white kids who are well off.
Doctordec’s post laid out the scenario that he could pick up points for poverty and points for athleticism, but that he could not get points for race. However, thisignores that his points for athleticism or poverty are the same points that are given for race. If he became a great athlete or attended Osborn, he has already picked up the points that a black kid could get–and could not double.
I’m not going to offer a great defense of the UoM program. I simply think that the arguments against it should be consistent with the facts.
Of course, the issue is that the black kid from the inner city can still get the same 20 points as pre-record Eminem; doing away with the racial kicker does not affect the poor inner city black applicant because he will still get his twenty points. The Michigan system is effectively a handout program to wealthy or middle class blacks – kids who, by all means, have no business being given a leg up on anybody. Why should the sons and daughters of black doctors and lawyers be given extra consideration? They went to good suburban schools, had good teachers and good opportunities. Their parents could presumably afford to pay Kaplan or Princeton Review. Why on earth to they need a handout?
Except, of course, that they do. Let’s be realistic for a moment. Most applicants to a college like Michigan are NOT from impoverished backgrounds and they are NOT scholarship-level athletes. I suspect a very small portion of the applicants to Michigan of any race are eligible for the 20 points on those grounds. As a practical matter, those 20 points effectively are only handed out on the basis of skin color.
(N.B., it’s another thread, but I’d be just as happy to see the athletic kicker get buried – put the “student” back in “student athlete”)
There was a very good discussion of this issue a year or two ago on either “60 Minutes” or “Dateline NBC,” prior to the SCOTUS agreeing to take it up.
Things I noted from the TV story:
Interviews with the white kids who weren’t allowed in despite superior scoring in a variety of other areas were somewhat poignant. They certainly left you feeling like people who were not given an opportunity they deserved, and were being treated unfairly, on the basis of their skin color and their skin color alone. And that sure feels like racism.
The show also offered anecdotes on blacks who got into the law school through this points-for-diversity system, who almost certainly would not have gotten in otherwise. They failed, right? They didn’t do nearly as good of a job as others who got into the law school via more “legitimate” avenues, right? Wrong. Many of the ones cited flourished. It was as if getting into that kind of an academic atmosphere ignited something inside them. Which, I would imagine, is precisely what U-M hopes for when it gives special consideration to underrepresented minorities and economic hardship cases.
This is one of those issues that leaves me in agreement with every good point that each side makes.
This issue, for whatever reason, reminded me of this sports column by Drew Sharp I read in the Detroit Free Press this morning.
We will truly be “diverse” when we stop making a big deal about skin color, in either direction.
A “black” student receives 20 more points than a non-black. Race is more significant than if non-blacks could receive 10 or 15 points, rather than zero. OTOH there are several other factors, while race is just one. The best way to make a fair comparison would be to look at the complete chart.
Does anyone have a link to a more complete description of the point tables and ranges used by UM Admissions Dept? I.e., what factors receive points? How many points are given for “partial credit”? What is the typical range of points that applicants receive for each item?