“We” refers to foreign policy wonks, particularly Middle Eastern policy, the study of which I was heavily involved with at the time, Tonto.
ETA: Except for “Clash of Civilizations” believers.
So leadership in the House and Senate knew about this, and approved it?
But the fault is Bush’s alone.
Still - shame on any legislator supporting this misadventure.
I think it’s pretty clear that Iran is not our friend, hasn’t been, and wants to dominate an oil-rich region of the world, which from what I read, is not what almost all the rest of the ME countries want.
And now we’re over there too, in Iraq, right next door, and no doubt that Iran is doing everything it can outside of directly attacking us to thwart our every move.
So in light of all that, amidst some very real fears (worldwide) about Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons, we have an increase in funding for covert action, intelligence gathering and such.
I have absolutely zero problem with that, but if anybody’s going to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities, it’s going to be Israel, not us, in my estimation. Ahmadinejad’s thinly veiled threats of “eliminating the Zionist regime” notwithstanding.
I’m fine with the Israelis bombing Iran. I’m not fine with us bombing Iran - and what the current Administration has clearly shown is that it has no problem starting new wars even at the expense of losing existing ones.
When you (global you) voted for Bush, the terrorists won. One terrorist won, at any rate. That guy, the one we were looking for. Binladle, or something. We were mad at him about something, I remember.
I agree…I don’t want another war, or even any more of the one in Iraq. I still feel that Afghanistan is a worthwhile effort, even if it hasn’t been successful in finding Bin Laden (which may be at least partially due to the vast reallocation of resources towards Iraq).
But I also think it’s wise to keep a very close eye on Iran and it’s activities.
Which does not mean we should have any problem with that, or even consider it any of our business. Iran’s regime is no worse than Saudi Arabia’s, actually better in many ways (they have elections – not entirely free, but not fraudulent either), and the oil will continue to be pumped and sold on the world market no matter which power is dominant in the region.
Aha! Appeasement!
Exactly. The only reason we’re so fixated on Iran is a) they’re in line to be the major power in Iraq after we’re gone, and b) we’re still smarting over the revolution and hostage crisis from 30 freakin’ years ago. Never mind that it was our meddling and removal of a democratically elected prime minister (who was hostile to Western economic and military interference in Persian affairs) to replace the autocratic and tyrannical Pahlavi back on the throne that started Iran’s ill-will toward us in the first place…
I think you’re mostly on target, but it’s complicated, too. We have alliances with countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan…which is saying nothing of our alliances with Israel or even Iran’s neighbor Iraq.
I really don’t want another war, but I firmly do not want Iran to be a nuclear weapon-wielding nation, either, and neither does the rest of the world.
I am also quite uncomfortable with the notion of Iran dominating the region if there’s any remote chance that they can fuck with our economy by putting a stranglehold on our oil imports.
From an individual perspective, I don’t think there’s any question that Iran has a more progressive and fair society than Saudi Arabia. Women don’t get stoned for being raped, you can wear more or less whatever you like, etc.
It’s a funny thing about governments. Britain has an established religion, and yet is generally much more progressive than the US. Iran has a theocracy, and yet is more progressive than Saudi Arabia. The repressive nature of Saudi law is especially odd given the decidedly pro-Western bent of the Sauds.
Never mind…my opinion on that isn’t backed up by research at this point.
Iraq was the stabilizing force in the middle east. Saddam scared the other countries straight. So we created a nice vacuum for someone to fill. Iran’s biggest rival is gone. it was a major strategic blunder. Now we tell them to stay away from the huge oil reserves on their border. and don’t create nukes ,which might save your country from the US and Israel. We tell them to operate against their own interests.
Uh, yeah, foreign policy is my profession and while I can’t speak to the thoughts of those whom you were associating at the time, I’m at a loss to think of many professionals in the field with whom I dealt with who thought that the invasion would be prevented simply because it was a bad idea. Everyone I worked with thought it either was a good idea, or a bad one that was nearly inevitable.
I actually thought of this thread when I read Sy Hersh’s article earlier this week. It appears Cockburn did have his story straight, so, to that extent, I am in error to have doubted Cockburn on this instance.
But from my reading up about him, and what a poor excuse for a journalist he seems to be (see again his quotes about Afghanistan) I’m inclined to chalk this up to “a broken clock is right twice a day.” And I’m still willing to take bets on attacking Iran.
Well, there is that whole supporting terrorist groups like Hezbollah thingie. And propping up Syria, who’s been violently meddling in Lebanon’s affairs forever.
And the Beruit bombing of US Marines. And the hostage taking at the US embassy in the late 1970’s.
I don’t think that Iran should have nuclear weapons, as I have very little faith in their oversight of any stickpile they may obtain (what’s the harm in letting a couple suitcases full slip out of Iran into the hands of Hezbollah, eh?) or their willingness to restrict them to a defense-only weapon.
And the entire world (well, except Iran, of course) agrees. And there’s certainly a great deal of skepticism about whether or not they haven’t been enriching uranium.
So ? It’s not like we don’t do the same or very similar things; we aren’t in any position to moralistically wave a finger at their foreign policy.
Oh, please. Iran isn’t going to give nukes to Hezbollah in any place beyond the fever dreams of the Right. Any more than they’ve given them poison gas or biological weapons, or even tanks or fighter jets. Nobody who has nukes lets them out of their control.
And the idea that they are these total suicidal crazies is just right wing propaganda.
It would be surprising if they hadn’t. Under the circumstances it’s the clear duty ( not to mention self interest ) of the Iranian government to acquire nukes as soon as possible, by any means necessary. Nukes are the only proven method of keeping America from invading and mass murdering your population.
Wrong, as usual, mon airhead.
If you’ll recall, we invaded and mass-murdered in search of nuclear weapons…which, btw, every major country’s intelligence service in the world believed Iran had, except for the U.S. and Bush. Bush then cleverly played upon this erroneous but widespread belief to lie us into war so that you could cheerlead for the other side and wish death and destruction upon our troops.
Do try to keep your facts straight.
Are you talking about our invasion of Iraq, or just being incoherent again ?
As for Iraq, few if any people outside the ever-gullible US believed Saddam had nukes, including Bush and friends.
blink-blink 
Is this, honestly, your recollection of the motive for invading Iraq? Search and (I presume) securing actual nuclear weapons?