Bush sponsors The Beginning Of The End for your privacy and your dignity...

[Scylla]

@E72521

Scylla, using your logic, they should also mandate pregnancy testing for these kids. I don’t think you want your 12 year old little girl going to school with other 12 year old little girls that have been statutorally raped, now do you.

What would I have against a girl who was raped that I’d need to keep her away from my daughter?

A girl isn’t going to get secretly pregnant and sell pregnancy to other children. Nor is pregnancy illegal.

I can’t see how pregnancy testing would be useful.

Drug testing could be useful. A teacher may know but there’s a difference between a very strong suspicion and concrete evidence of drug use. These identified can be helped.

A kid on drugs is a kid with a problem that affects the other children in the school who are not on drugs in a negative manner. If my daughter had a drug problem, I would not expect them to allow the education of everybody else to suffer because of her.

As her father, I would want to know that my daughter was doing drugs in school, or had tested positive for drugs.

[Bricker]

While I don’t share the hysterical hyperbole gift of the OP, I certainly oppose this as a federal initiative. The federal government has no business in this.

[E72521]

As her father, I would want to know that my daughter was doing drugs in school, or had tested positive for drugs.

As her father, you are in the best position to suspect drug abuse and test her yourself.

[London_Calling]

@Scylla

As her father, I would want to know that my daughter was doing drugs in school, or had tested positive for drugs.

And you don’t want to take responsibility for this yourself; instead
you want the ‘Nanny State’ to carry out this parental ‘policing’ function on your behalf ?

Aren’t you taking the very old-style principles of the socialist, even Communist, state a little too far ?

[Lightnin]

@Revtim

From what I can tell, nearly ALL software jobs require a piss test, regardless of what they are working on. They probably test the guys hired for designing levels on video games. I wish I was exagerrating, 'luc.

I’ve been in the game industry for nigh unto 9 years now, and I’ve never heard of a game company doing any sort of drug testing. A good thing, too- the industry’d likely be gutted if all the workers who do drugs were fired for testing positive. Heck, that’d be most of management, right there.

[GusNSpot]

@E72521

As her father, you are in the best position to suspect drug abuse and test her yourself.

Got no dog in this fight because I’m OLD. Done and over with years ago. As to the quote, E72521, your lack of awareness of the capabilities of the AVERAGE parent in this country would be amusing if it were not so sad.

The word ‘should’ could have been added and would have at least made the post somewhat realistic.
YMMV

[Scylla]

@London_Calling

And you don’t want to take responsibility for this yourself;

I can’t understand why you insist on telling me what I want. How can you possibly know? How can you possibly state that you know what I want? Why would you try to tell me?

Telling me what I want, as if you were an athority, is stupid.

instead
you want the ‘Nanny State’ to carry out this parental ‘policing’ function on your behalf ?

Aren’t you taking the very old-style principles of the socialist, even Communist, state a little too far ?

And compounding the stupidity you make a strawmen out of your false assertion concerning my desires.

Do me a favor. Instead of making things up and attributing them to me as mine so that you can flagellate a strawman, why don’t you just ask?

Before you pronounce your diagnosis of my desires, perhaps you should ask me why I said what I said, and what the reason is for it. Then comment.

---

I do not wish to pawn off my responsibility. The fact is, that sometimes the parents are the last to know. Sometimes children are good at fooling their parents. Sometimes the parents are incapable of seeing what is obvious to others because they are blinded by their love of their children.

If a teacher was aware that my child was taking drugs and did not inform me, I would be angry at that teacher and feel they were doing a poor job.

I am glad that schools screen for scoliosis, and I think it’s appropriate that they look for and report potential signs of abuse. It seems stupid to me that they would turn a blind eye on drug abuse. It seems stupid to me that with drug abuse being such a serious problem in schools, we would not take such an obvious step to combat it.

I do not wish to hide from my responsibilities. The fact is, that it’s possible that I may fail in them. A lot of parents are. That’s why there’s the need. That’s why we’re talking about this.

I do not want my child penalized for my failure, if I make one. I certainly don’t want my child’s education penalized for the failure of other parents.

[London_Calling]

Dear Comrade, I asked you two questions. That was it. Not overly difficult.

The response is typical Syclla . . . so this is where the rational find better things to do; I’m jolly well orf.

Never had you down as having socialist or neo-Communist sympathies. Funny old world.

[Beagle]

@London_Calling

And you don’t want to take responsibility for this yourself; instead
you want the ‘Nanny State’ to carry out this parental ‘policing’ function on your behalf ?

Aren’t you taking the very old-style principles of the socialist, even Communist, state a little too far ?

Let me take this opportunity to agree with London_Calling. I’m sick of these bed-wetting, knee-jerk, other-hyphenatedword Republicans. They spend like drunken sailors, while pushing their own version of Zero Year morals education.

Speaking of drunken sailors… The family angle figures into all this. See, his (GWB’s) daughters drink too much, but Jeb’s daughter Noelle has a drug problem.

[Scylla]

If some of you don’t favor drug testing for children in school, what do you propose to do about the problem?

Do you feel equally that we shouldn’t test airline pilots? Do you feel companies cannot predicate employment upon passing a drug test? Do you feel athletes shouldn’t be tested?

If you think it’s ok that we pry into the privacy of these adults in these circumstances that should certainly know better, than by what standard do you confer a pricacy right to children in this circumstance?

[Beagle]

Or, put simply, do we want to blend education and policing any more than we already have?

I don’t. The most important function of the school system is to impart useful knowledge. It seems as though some people want the public school system to do so much more. Morals education, marriage education, prayer, birth control, gay tolerance, homophobia, whatever. How about reading some of the classics?

Kids in the US have a lot of trouble with the way the world is laid out. That’s not a good sign. Parents should have globes. Pick one up at a yard sale. I grow plants that come from Madagascar, Borneo, Sumatra, Vietnam, and Australia, I find geography to be fascinating. That’s only one quick ‘spin’ from here.

If a child cannot find the UK or France on a map, parents, we have a problem.

A youth drug problem, to the extent one exists, should be dealt with by the parents first. If your child is on a controlled substance, or worse, abusing one, there are many signs to look for. One way to prevent drug abuse is to always look for “signs” in your children while you are out playing ball with them, riding a bike with them, taking them to the beach, amusment park, or museum.

I can’t imagine having been so far from my parents growing up that they would not have noticed something right away. No, I had to go to college for things like that.

[cheddarsnax]

@Scylla

If some of you don’t favor drug testing for children in school, what do you propose to do about the problem?

What problem?

Do you feel equally that we shouldn’t test airline pilots? Do you feel companies cannot predicate employment upon passing a drug test? Do you feel athletes shouldn’t be tested?

Dude, get some perspective. An airline pilot is responsible for hundreds, perhaps thousands of lives every day. Athletes are in high-stakes competition, and drugs can give certain players unfair advantages. Someone who smokes a little pot is not necessarily going to be a bad employee.

If you think it’s ok that we pry into the privacy of these adults in these circumstances that should certainly know better, than by what standard do you confer a pricacy right to children in this circumstance?

Now, Scylla, if someone at your daughter’s school is using drugs, that is not a threat to your daughter’s life. If a kid on drugs fails a test, your daughter will remain alive. As far as I know, there aren’t any drugs out there to make kids smarter, so no problems there. And students who use drugs are not all going to be failing their classes, dealin’ like there’s no tomorrow, and corrupting innocent children. I know kids who use drugs on a regular basis. They’re doing well in school, they don’t sell. Casual drug users, and they’re no problem. Of course, there are some drug users who are absolute trainwrecks. Failing classes, not even showing up. But then, there are kids who don’t use drugs and yet have the same problems.

I’m sure you’re very worried about the Drug Issue. I’ve seen the ads, they have some pretty scary music. But drug use is not a certain path to failure, it’s not a one-way street to death, it’s not a runaway train of personal destruction. It’s not really a metaphor of anything. Testing kids for drugs when there’s no evidence that they’re using them, other than “THEY’RE KIDS!”, is absurd. If you want kids to stay off drugs, have parents talk to them. Teach the kids about the potential consequences. Random urine testing tells kids they can’t be trusted and they’re not smart enough to stay off those darn drugs. Yeah, you’ll find some kids using drugs. But many of them weren’t a problem, and those that were can be found out without testing kids for no reason. Think about it, Scylla.

[London_Calling]

@Scylla

Do you feel equally that we shouldn’t test airline pilots? Do you feel companies cannot predicate employment upon passing a drug test? Do you feel athletes shouldn’t be tested?

I feel my sensibilities being assaulted by a platoon of Comrade Sylla’s ‘crack’ Straw Men; YES! Of course I want my Olympic standard, 16 year-old airline pilots drug tested because it’s a natural extension to the absurd and bankrupt ‘War on Drugs’ that’s already seen millions of US citizens criminalized when, had they been anywhere else in the developed world, they wouldn’t be so criminalized.

It’s obviously important that courts – at some point in the future - will be able to take into account non-criminal, school time drug experimenting and testing in consideration of sentencing tariffs.

[Brutus]

@Master Wang-Ka

… If so, I am not at all surprised by their unusual drinking habits…

Ignoring the rest of your retarded ‘rant’, what the hell is unusual about college kids drinking?

[iamthewalrus_3]

@Beagle

If your child is on a controlled substance, or worse, abusing one, there are many signs to look for. One way to prevent drug abuse is to always look for “signs” in your children while you are out playing ball with them, riding a bike with them, taking them to the beach, amusment park, or museum.

I call bullshit.

I’m now 22 and have a good relationship with my parents, but the last thing that I wanted to do when I was in high school was go to the amusement park or museum with Mom and Dad. And, no, I wasn’t on drugs or drinking (until senior year, never abusive). I just didn’t want to hang out with the 'rents. It wasn’t cool.

Not that I agree with the schools doing testing. Just that even parents who try to be involved aren’t going to be the greatest judge of their kids’ habits.

[Scylla]

Beagle:

Or, put simply, do we want to blend education and policing any more than we already have?

It’s not a question of want, but need.

It’s like asking “Do we want to be taking Pennicillin?”

Well no, not if you don’t mind your syphillis.

Cheddarsnax:

What problem?

Kids taking drugs.

Dude, get some perspective. An airline pilot is responsible for hundreds, perhaps thousands of lives every day. Athletes are in high-stakes competition, and drugs can give certain players unfair advantages. Someone who smokes a little pot is not necessarily going to be a bad employee.

Kids stoned in school impacts the children not stoned. It affects the children themselves. It is a discipline problem. It takes up school resources. It impacts the level of education that the school can offer and the safety and wholesomeness of the environment. I think that’s a lot more important than the competitive activity of pro athletes.

Now, Scylla, if someone at your daughter’s school is using drugs, that is not a threat to your daughter’s life. If a kid on drugs fails a test, your daughter will remain alive. As far as I know, there aren’t any drugs out there to make kids smarter, so no problems there. And students who use drugs are not all going to be failing their classes, dealin’ like there’s no tomorrow, and corrupting innocent children.

Bullshit. Pure bullshit. An environment where juvenile drug abuse is tolerated is an unsafe environment for children. If it were a safe environment, it wouldn’t be tolerated. Drugs just don’t appear out of thin air. They get distributed. They get offered. There’s peer pressure. It ruins kids lives. I can see absolutely no reason whatsoever to tolerate it, and most especially not in the environment of the educational system.

[F.U.Shakespeare]

I have no problem testing all schoolkids for drugs.

Provided we also test them for tobacco use. Correct me if I’m wrong, but minors who smoke are breaking the law, and risking their lives.

I also believe we should give 'em all powder residue tests. What if they’re out there planning another Columbine-scale massacre? I’m just thinking of the children.

I mean, if we’re going to throw away our freedoms, let’s do it without cultural biases. (Conservatives who favor this drug testing should try to imagine how’d they’d feel if Clinton had proposed it).

For the record, I voted for Bush. And the job I’ve held for the last eighteen years requires me to submit to regular drug tests.

Disclaimer: No, I don’t really favor any of the above tests. And I’m aware of the respective scale differences inherent in my strawmen.

[Scylla]

@F. U. Shakespeare

Disclaimer: No, I don’t really favor any of the above tests. And I’m aware of the respective scale differences inherent in my strawmen.

Well, since you seem to realize your argument is bullshit, I see no sense in rebutting it.

[London_Calling]

So Scylla, a serious question. Did you not experiment with a range of social indulgences when aged, say, 16; maybe a little too much Scotch, a brief flirtation with prostitution, a dabble with homosexuality, a hit or three on a friends joint, an unfortunate pregnancy due to your ‘over-excitement’ ?

In other words, how does your support of this drug testing policy take into account the natural inclination of the young to experiment, to make mistakes and find their own individual acceptable kinds of social behaviour, their own views on important issues of personal freedom and what they as individuals find as acceptable.

You want your socialist State to decide everything for them – cos, I tell you, it ain’t going to stop a damn thing; it’s just going to hamper the education of an awful lot of otherwise fine kids and give those unfortunate to be ‘caught’ an unfair disadvantage in their later life - just like its Big Daddy the ‘War on Drugs’ already does.

It’s taking that giant mistake down a generation.

[F.U.Shakespeare]

Scylla, the fact that more kids smoke pot than get killed by guns does not make my argument bullshit.

At least, no more than the fact that getting shot to death is worse than smoking a joint makes your argument bullshit. (And FTR, I adamantly support the second amendment).

It simply calls into question what it is about pot (and coke) that justify forcing law-abiding (minor) citizens to give in to such an invasion of privacy. And not other invasions.

I echo London_Calling: the War On Some Drugs veers too far, too often, into quasi-religious territory for any rational debate to take place.