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The BBQ Pit
1

The miserable Nazi bastard simply isn’t going to stop until he’s allowed to own us all, apparently.

What I’m “pissed off” about

The upshot of this article seems to be that President Bush thinks it would be a good idea to test public school children for drug use.

**“The aim here is not to punish children, but to send them this message: 'We love you, and we don’t want to lose you,”’ Bush said. **

Tell me, Mr. President, do YOU tell YOUR children “I love you” by forcing them to piss in cups in full view of unfriendly nurses? If so, I am not at all surprised by their unusual drinking habits. Then again, considering how so much of your family seems to have turned out, I would not be surprised by ANY weird revelation of how you relate to each other.

I really don’t like the idea that the children of tomorrow may well have to get used to the idea of pissing in cups and being tested. I mean, what next? Random drug testing for Social Security benefits? Hell, why don’t we just test everyone, and then jail them what tests positive?

WHY, Mr. President, ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF TREATING OUR CHILDREN LIKE CRIMINALS?

And forcing their parents to pay for it with their hard-earned tax money?

This bugs me to no end. I foresee a time when everyone, male and female, regardless of criminal history, will have to provide a piss sample to get a job, to get any kind of government benefits, or successfully deal with the government at ALL.

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, people, our ANCESTORS CREATED this country because they didn’t like the idea of taxation without representation, among other things.

Wonder what they’d have thought if King George had insisted that free men and women, unaccused of crimes, submit piss samples?

“Just to be sure?”

“Just to keep 'em honest?”

No doubt ol’ George Washington and Patrick Henry would have simply concluded that King George just loved us and didn’t wanna lose us…

(must… not… violate… Pit… rules… particularly … regarding… major… political … figures…)

2

Aren’t we pretty there now? Does anybody hire without a piss test anymore? I know I need to be tested for friggin’ software jobs, and you almost have to be high to do that properly…

3

I dunno. I’m not in software.

(Software? What the hell do you do in software that justifies a piss test? What, are you designing missile guidance systems, or something?)

My wife had to take routine piss tests when she was a school bus driver. I didn’t agree with it, but I could at least understand the justification for it.

Now, she teaches. I teach, too. Neither of us had to take piss tests for that, at least.

Yet.

Okay, never mind about what you do that justifies a piss test. I knew someone who had to take a piss test to get a job in a print shop, now that I think about it.

…and that’s one of the things that bugs me. What the hell reason is there for taking a piss test? Employers will tell you it’s because they run a drug free shop.

Not that this tells them if you’re smoking dope on the job or not. I hold the opinion that what a guy does on his off time is his own business… but that, as far as I can tell, isn’t really the reason for piss tests.

I suspect the real reason my chum had to take a test to get into the print shop was to see exactly how far they could humiliate the guy, how much crap he was willing to take to get the job.

And it’s legal. Hell, there are those who applaud such things.

I’ve never had to pee in a cup to get a job. Not that it would serve any purpose; I don’t do drugs. I haven’t done any illegal drugs in more than a decade.

And I’d resent it like mad if someone told me I had to pee in a cup to keep my job, or to recieve government benefits, or ANY damn thing.

And I resent the fact that Bush is apparently attempting to create a world in which people like me don’t exist… where people meekly pee in cups when ordered to do so by authority figures, and people meekly pay their taxes to pay for this insanity, and everyone meekly does as they’re told, even more so than now, regardless of what kind of Nazi rat-bastard insanity the sonofabitch insists on pulling with our tax money, our foreign policy, and our country.

RHAAAARGH!!!

4

I hasten to point out to those middle-management types here on the Board, those who are in a position to affect the employment of consultants, etc., that friend Revtim is exaggerating for purposes of humor. Most persons involved in computer geekitude are drug-free, as well as entirely free of humor and/or irony. This is most especially true of application developers and help-desk drudges, who are too low on the food chain to take risks.

5

From what I can tell, nearly ALL software jobs require a piss test, regardless of what they are working on. They probably test the guys hired for designing levels on video games. I wish I was exagerrating, 'luc.

I had to take a piss test last year, to a do a contract job testing telephony software. I worked for the company before, they knew I am an excellent worker (which is why they gave me the contract, there would have been a lot of competition for it), and they still needed to make sure I didn’t spark one up in my free time.

It’s fucking ridiculous. If an employee is doing so much drugs that the work is suffering FIRE HIM OR HER BECAUSE THE WORK IS SHIT. You don’t need to even know the reason why the work is shit.

And if I light up on my day off, but still do good job, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!!!

Goddamn this pisses me off sometimes. I don’t even care to do illegal drugs, alcohol is my drug of choice.

6

“I can’t smoke a joint with you because I’ll get kicked out of band and yearbook.” Yeah, this’ll go a long way toward keeping kids from looking like nerds…

Of course study after study has shown that kids involved in extracurricular activities are the least likely to use drugs anyway.

I wonder, though, why 23 million dollars? Why are federal programs so often funded at odd numbers?

7

Supposedly the whole point BEHIND testing school kids for drugs is “We love you and don’t want to lose you.” This implies we’re worried about them overdosing on drugs, or driving around stoned, yes?

Who’s more at risk, then? The high school athlete? Or the stoner kid who thinks football’s for muscleheads, and wouldn’t join a school club if you paid him?

Testing the athletes is largely a waste of time and money.

8

My dignity and my privacy have always been pretty much co-dependant. Having to perform as a lad for a large, glaring nurse would have been a real nut shriveler.

Nurse: “Fill the cup.”
Me: “Lady, I doubt I could fill the test tube.”

9

Our employees work with teens who have been remanded to our care by the courts. They drive the kids places, and are required to have a valid driver’s license before we will hire them.

We don’t test any of our employees for drug use. We do occasionally test the kids. Some of the kids were drug users before coming to us.

Not all employers test their employees for drugs - even in jobs requiring responsibility for the care and safety of high risk youth. Testing school children who’ve shown no indication that they might be using illegal drugs? That’s just nuts.

OTOH, when I was in high school, I had to pass a drug test before I was able to work as a part-time secretary at a trucking company. Go figure.

10

The country seems to have gone drug-crazy in the last 10 or 15 years. Besides the fact that the feds have no business interfering with schools do, I think this idea stinks. But I have to agree with REVTIM about drug testing for job applicants. Seems to be S.O.P everywhere these days.

The “No, I can’t get high right now as I have a job offer pending and will likely have to piss in a cup in the next few days” refrain has become part of our culture.

11

Surprise, surprise, but I agree with this testing.

Drug use in school was a big problem. It’s destructive to the children who do it, and those surrounded by it. It affects everybody’s education.

The school makes you prove that you are up to date with your innoculations before they will let you attend. They do this for the same reason. If you are not, it is a hazard to all the other children.

We perform all kinds of other tests in school; scoliosis and general health checks, eye checks, testing for children who may have special needs, athletic testing, academic testing.

I can’t imagine by what argument illegal drug use is exempted from the other prudent normal testing we do on children in schools.

You find a twelve year old with pot in his system, and there’s a problem. He got it from somewhere. He may be giving it to other kids, or bragging about it to other kids.

You catch it, you have a chance to help him, as well as protect the other kids.

I don’t want kids on drugs in school with my daughter, and I’ll be happy to have my daughter tested in turn to protect the rights of other schoolchildren.

12

I’m not sure I’m all that happy with the testing myself, but one thing I can say about it is this: I was an athlete in high school a few years ago, and if there was even a possibility that the school would test me for weed, that would’ve been enough for me to swear off of my occasional use. I’d have hated them for doing it, but if the goal is to keep kids off drugs, it would’ve worked on me.

13

I don’t see the problem with requiring kids who break the rules to leave the school premises – it’s worked for eternity, or at least until now ?

So is it just the untaxed, non-profit-based or non-consumer-driven drugs they’re testing for or the regular ones as well; teevee addiction, credit card abuse, regular prescribed drug use, nicotine dependency, alcohol dependency, crap fast, diet-ruining food dependency . . maybe not given successive Administration policy of criminalizing and imprisoning 1,000 times more of its citizens than any other industrialised nation.

Just weed and a few others, right ?

Comes a point, folks, when you criminalize such a % of your own people that the policy no longer has popular support; where then is the line between representative Government and oppression ?

Land of the Free, right ?

14

Children don’t have the same rights as adults. I don’t they should.

I think you’re missing this.

15

Oh man, tell me about it. I’ve been able to get by without ever having to submit a sample for a job, but I’ve also been taking jobs with smaller local businesses, and once a job where it seemed most employees were stoned more often than not (it was a local pizza place*). I’m sure that when I finally want to get a serious, non-student type job I’ll probably have to take a test.

There must be some logic to it, as companies tend to do what is in their economic interest. Can anyone explain? A person who seems pulled together at an interview and brings with them a solid resume and a recommendation from a former boss is almost certainly someone without a drug problem that interferes with their work, right?

The public school thing is even more full of crap. Wouldn’t it be more effective to offer a variety of extracurricular options that give kids something to devote themselves to, a better option than heading over to a friend’s place right after class to get high? Honestly, I don’t know what the solution for public schools is. Our local public high schools are about the most open drug markets around, short of something like an underground rave. Anything you want can be purchased at very competitive prices out in the open, which results in hard drugs getting in to the hands of young, uneducated users. That, I think we can agree, is not good. Frankly, I don’t think it’s a problem if a kid over the age of 16 or so smokes a joint with friends in a responsible manner (smoke some place safe, no driving, etc.) but it’s no good for kids to be bombarded constantly with offers of pot, ecstasy, acid, adderall, valium, etc.

LC

16

Here is the thing ** Scylla** if the 12 year old is doing drugs, the teachers know it anyway. We can smell it on him, we can see it in his unfocused eyes, and Og knows, we can tell in his behavior in class, that is if we ever see him. I can tell the kids who are going to flunk my class within days of the term starting. The thing is for the most part I only know their names I wouldnt recognise them, because I never see them. I had a class of 37 last term, of those kids there were 5 I never ever say and 3 that i saw less than 3 times. There was one I only saw when he was suspended. I can’t do anything with kids who aren’t there and one more thing that keeps them away from school seems like the worst idea that could be come up with. The other thing is that kids are funny. If you decide to treat them as if they are doing something wrong 9 times out of 10 they will decide that they may as well do it.

17

I had plenty of friends who smoked pot in high school. Some of them were randomly tested, and it didn’t stop many of them from smoking pot. If anything, it made them more determined to beat the system to keep up their habit.

18

bah. Sorry. I meant to say i never actually saw five of the kids in my class at all. The school system has an automatic calling system that phones every absent childs house every day there isn’t an excuse phoned in by 10am. I still never saw them.

19

Some workplaces screen for drugs because they get a break on their workman’s comp premiums. Others that do random testing get an even better discount.

Scylla, using your logic, they should also mandate pregnancy testing for these kids. I don’t think you want your 12 year old little girl going to school with other 12 year old little girls that have been statutorally raped, now do you. They may brag about their boyfriends and/or abortions. Major distraction for the light of your life, no? And testing for STDs too. They also kill. Let’s get with the program here. This kids don’t need to learn about privacy until much later in life. Schools and government, not parents–the anti-drug?

20

See, IMHO any debate over drug testing is so poisoned by the “War On Drugs” that it’s practically pointless. If we as a nation has something resembling a sane attitude toward the use and abuse of currently illegal drugs, then discussing drug testing children might have some merit. As it is, the taint from the drug war is overwhelming.