Businesses Not to Support

In My Humble Opinion
41

Your Holiness (or whatever saints are called):

First, I will happily concede that B&N’s clerks are no Mensa aces (and Borders’ morons are the worst), but what they don’t know, their computers usually do. Publish date, quantity in stock, section to find it in, etc.? It’s all there and more. Forget the exact title? No problem. Not sure about the author? They can search by keyword.

IIRC, somewhere here on the SDMB one of the book snobs posted a story about how the cretins at B&N put “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” in the Automotive section. He and his bibliophile brethren must’ve gotten a big Yuk, Yuk over that one. But you know what? At least B&N HAS an Automotive section – a nice big, fat one, too. The indies don’t – or maybe they’ll carry a few token volumes to keep the chauffeur busy while Madame browses.

Come back in time with me, and let’s take a visit to the “Good Ol’ Days” before B&N shook up the book biz (screen goes all woozy like in an “I Love Lucy” flashback):

Drinking a coke and want to shop for some books? Sorry, not here in Ye Olde Independent Bookstore! No sirree. Sure you may look like an responsible adult, but we know that you’re REALLY just a butter-fingered klutz with nothing better to do but splash cola all over our precious babies.

What’s that sir? A book about plumbing! Why, do they even make such a thing? Really, you MUST be joking.

What’s that? You want to READ some of that book before you buy it. Sir, this is Ye Olde Independent Bookstore! The library is down the street.

Oh, you are a devilish one, aren’t you sir? You managed to slip off in the corner and read a few pages after all! We really must get that radiator covered with pointy spikes… it’s far too inviting for loafers. The same with the step stools.

Ahh… I see you’re finally ready to make your purchase! Edith Wharton, excellent choice! Well, yes, I know it’s the only author we carry. But, now if you’ll just wait right here until Mellissa is through with the new window display – she’s the only one who knows how to work the register, you know – we’ll have you out in maybe twenty or thirty minutes!

Saint Z, you can have your indies and their brainy clerks. I’ll stick with the idiots at B&N any day.

42

To further clarify why I do not support Ben & Jerry’s (since two posters have asked):

B&J is heavily aligned with the progressive left and democratic politics. I do not wish any of my money to support the democratic party.

B&J is a big supporter of Greenpeace. I most emphatically do not want any of my money ending up in the hands of Greenpeace. Aside from the money issue, I don’t want to give tacit support.

B&J supports the cop-killer Abu-Jamal. From http://www.officer.com:

“Ben Cohen signed a petition asking that Abu-Jamal’s conviction be overturned, and allowed the “Ben & Jerry’s” company name to appear on the petition, which was published in newspapers. Ben & Jerry’s provides financial support to Abu-Jamal’s defense.”

This to me is reason enough.

I do not fault them for being hypocritical. In fact, their determination to support the causes they believe in is commendable. Not that they care, but that only ensures I will never buy their ice cream.

And no, I don’t necessarily object to every socially conscious effort they might support. However, I support different means. There is more than one way to feed and educate children. The Ben & Jerry Way is not my way.

43

I do not buy Ben & Jerry’s goddam products, because I have gone up an entire goddam dress size in the last two goddam years.

As far as Barnes & Noble—there are still a few GOOD independent bookstores in New York. If there’s a book I want, I’ll call Gotham Book Mart and have them get it for me; I’d rather give my money to them than to B&N.

What’s the latest on Domino’s Pizza—are they still giving money to Operation Rescue, or is that an Urban Legend?

44

To clarify, Ben and Jerry’s does not donate any money to either the democratic party or the progressive party. The progressive party (in Vermont, anyhow) is mainly concerned with keeping big business out, and socializing as much as possible. Obviously a multimillion dollar conglomerate like B&Js wouldn’t support the progressive party. They don’t support political parties, they support individual social causes.

Anyway, more Chocolate Hazelnut Expresso Swirl for me.

45

I have not bought (nor have I even accepted a free can of) Sprite ever since they hired Kris Kross to do some of their commercials. I refuse to support anything that stupid.

Yeah, I know that Sprite’s parent company makes plenty of other products that I probably use, but at least I’m avoiding the brand itself.

46

About 10 years ago, I was in Hardee’s and witnessed an employee in the kitchen about to cough a lung out as he prepared food. I’m sure it happens elsewhere but for some reason this bothered me so bad that I haven’t set foot in a Hardee’s since.

47

UNOCAL, for their cooperation with the military dictarship in Myanmar that is using forced labour to build a new pipeline, and mistreatment of workers (beatings, torture, etc…)

Shell Oil, for their implicit cooperation with the Nigerian Government in the executions of human rights and ecological activists protesting the huge environmental damage done by drilling in Ogoniland.

48

Well, most of you won’t know this place, since it’s locally owned, but just in case there are any Straight Dopers in the Logan, Utah area, here goes.

About a year ago, I took my wife’s car into Intermountain Cooling to find out why the air conditioner wasn’t blowing cold air. After getting the call, the total to repair the problem was going to be $340.00 (including parts). Well, having a very good friend who works at the local Chevy dealership, I can get my parts at cost. So, just out of curiosity, I asked the question “can I get the part myself and have you put it in?” I was pretty sure they wouldn’t let me, but I figured it was worth at least asking. The mechanic replied “hell no, can you take your own hamburger to McDonald’s and have them cook it for you?” Stunned, I said “hey man, I was only asking, you don’t have to get nasty about it.” To which he replied “that wasn’t nasty, when I tell you to take your car and stick it where the sun don’t shine, that’ll be nasty.”. Well, with all the control I could muster, I headed up to Intermountain Cooling, ready to talk to the owner. When I explained that I was treated very rudely, he hit me with “well, you customer’s think you can just do anything you want, etc…” I said “no, I don’t think anything. Just put my damn car together and I’ll be back in an hour to pick it up.” I’ll be GOD DAMNED if I’m going to pay some motherfucker $340.00 to treat me like an asshole. Ended up getting the job done at the dealer for LESS MONEY than Intermountain Cooling had quoted me. I’ve never set foot in that place since, and I’ve told everyone I know about it. All that asshole had to do was say “No, I’m sorry, we don’t allow that.”. But he had to be a giant cock about it.

So, now that I’ve rambled on, let me just say this. You don’t need to put up with people’s shit. You’re not there for them, they’re there for you. Make them earn their money…

Also, I hope like hell one of the guys from Intermountain Cooling reads this. Oh man, that’d be the TOPS!!! In the event they do, I must say… FUCK YOU!!

49

Your Holiness works fine, better than some things I’ve been called. :smiley:

Now, about the trip through the “independent Store”.

granted, most of what you wrote was humor, and meant to be taken that way. I can see that. Most stores that want to stay in business carry what their clientel wants. An independent store can’t carry 1,000,000 books but will carry what it knows it can sell. I go to the one I visit to look for certain things, and Books A Million for comic books and magazines. I like the indy store we have here, they are polite, and don’t care if you bring your drink in.
I’m not going to say all are that good, but we have one here that is.

The B&N here hasn’t impressed me yet. Somewhere out there, their might be a good one, with knowledgable staff, fair managers and the like, but this one here is strictly fair to middling at best.

50

Gosh, as far as I’m concerned that’s three or four excellent reasons TO go to ben and jerry’s. I usually don’t, though, cos they’re fucking expensive.

I try to avoid chain bookstores if at all possible; there are many wonderful little bookstores all over the place in Montreal, one of which (Nebula) just had to fold. :frowning:

I never buy any article of clothing with advertising on it, from either the clothier (e.g. Tommy Hilfiger) or another company (e.g. Pepsi). If they want advertising space on my body, they should be paying me, not the other way around.

Definitely no Nike.

Since I started drinking coffee, I have bought only fair trade coffee, even though it’s slightly more expensive (I can get it in bulk from the student-run natural food store at Concordia). Unfortunately, my fave café (2nd Cup) doesn’t buy fair trade, although they do sponsor children in coffee-growing areas.

I will never buy a car.

I never eat at McDonald’s; very rarely do I eat fast food of any kind, and when I do it’s usually a Montreal specialty like 49 cent/99 cent pizza or La Belle Province.

I am never riding Greyhound, Voyageur, or Trentway buses again after they conspired to get Allo-Stop shut down in Ontario. Allo-Stop is a carpooling service which those buslines claimed was operating a bus service without a license. Even though this was a complete crock according to the laws of Ontario, its Ontario service was still shut down. Negotiations are continuing, but in the meantime life is difficult for any non-rich people who want to go to Ontario.

51

Your main point seems to be the fact that in those mom and pop stores, the employees there do not speak English very well. Well, can’t the same be said for the employees at Wal-Mart and Home Depot and all those other national chain stores? I live in a suburb of L.A., where a lot of Spanish speakers live.

I don’t speak Spanish (other than two years of high school Spanish, but I barely got by on a B-), so communicating to these employees proves to be quite a challenge for me, and for them. The mom and pop stores here are mostly owned by English speakers. I would much rather patron these stores. The employees there know their shit when it comes to the products they sell.

It’s all just a bunch of high school kids and people on work-release programs who work at these national stores. When I ask where I can find carbide tipped circular saws, I don’t want to be shown where the carbon monoxide detectors are.

But, like a previous poster stated, I try to buy most of my stuff online. It’s much cheaper, and I don’t have to deal with the incompetence.

52

B&N for their “scorched earth” policy of going into a mall and forcing out EVERY competitor. DIE, B&N, DIE SCREAMING AND ON FIRE!!!

53

Vandal:

Here in NYC just about ALL stores are staffed with high school kids and English-as-a-second-language clerks – the super stores AND the M&Ps. But, you can ALWAYS find someone who knows what you want – eventually – in a super store. The Mom & Pop places usually have one, two or three clerks; strike out with them and the ballgame is over.

And the super stores seem to attract more motivated employees or train them better. Here’s why: nobody WANTS to be a corner drug store clerk in Manhattan when they know the owner’s snotty absentee kid is going to inherit the business. So instead, eager job seekers try to climb the corporate ladder at, say, Home Depot and make a career of it. I say, good for them.

Look, ever since I was a kid there was this New York City mythology about the “friendly neighborhood corner store.” I remember those stores and the people who ran them. They were indeed the salt of the earth.

But they passed their businesses on to people who did not give a shit about the store, the employees or the customers. That’s when the truth and the mythology parted company. This second generation of shop keepkeepers was mean, greedy, arrogant and lazy. Short hours. Stingy wages. Gruff service. Stupid rules. Unfriendly refund/return policies. Shoddy or behind the times merchandise. Lousy selection… And all at top-dollar prices. Because they were in New York, where nationwide chains feared to tread (due to mob meddling, outrageous transport costs, unionization, etc.) they felt they could get away with it. But not anymore.

SO, I SAY, F*CK 'EM! They deserve to go bankrupt!

That being said, I want to close with the confession that the best damn hardware store in the universe is a Mom & Pop place (Bro & Bro place, really) two blocks from where I live: Gasnick’s on Third Ave. between 52nd & 53rd. It’s owned and run by two of greatest old geezer hardware guys ever made, Walter and Jack Gasnick. They stock everything – not just the blister pack stuff, they hire unionized clerks that KNOW hardware, they treat you with respect whether you’re looking for one nut-and-bolt (“hey, it’s on the house”) or you want to rent a cement-mixer (yup, they got 'em!), and they don’t gouge your wallet in the process. Gasnick thrives because they kept up with the times and they knew how to run their business.

54

“Forcing out,” Mr. Blue Sky? Don’t you really mean “competing more effectively”?

Look, one thing the book snobs hate to admit is that THE BIG BOOK CHAINS SAVED THE PUBLISHING INDUSTRY!

How many people regularly shopped at bookstores fifteen years ago? Nobody, except the snobs who knew the owners by their first names and didn’t care if the rest of the shoppers got treated like dirt.

The publishing industry was dying, Mr. Blue! Remember?

Then the chains came along and let all the riff-raff in and spoiled the snobs’ wittle club!

And now look! The industry is booming… and do you know who you have to thank? All us low-lifes who shop at B&N – where we feel welcome! We’re the ones keeping the publishers in business, not the book snobs, so our stores are thriving and theirs are tanking. The invisible hand, as usual, knows best.

55

This bookstore debate is so moot for me, because here in Assboink (technically Lexington) we have Joseph-Beth Booksellers.

This place was Barnes & Noble ten years before B&N was. It is easily twice the size of our local B&N, with at least twice the selection. It has an excellent coffee shop and gourmet restaurant, as opposed to the Starbucks stand at B&N. I’d say a majority of the employees have degrees in English, and you have to take a fairly tough test to get a job there.

The few times I have been in B&N since it opened, it has been almost totally empty. Joseph-Beth is busy every single night. They might have a slightly bigger discount on bestsellers, but I otherwise can’t think of a single reason to go to B&N, unless you need Starbucks to feel cool.

Speaking of Starbucks, I don’t drink their coffee for one simple reason–it’s really shitty coffee. Am I the only one who has realized this? And it’s like $17.95 a cup! Not to mention that their smallest size is a Tall–that always pisses me off.

As a progressive-type, I support nearly all of Ben and Jerry’s causes, and indeed buy their ice cream whenever I buy ice cream. Trouble is, that’s about three or four times a year, tops. (Mmmmm, Phish Food…The Phinest In The Nation…)

Dr. J

56

“Here in NYC just about ALL stores are staffed with high school kids and English-as-a-second-language clerks – the super stores AND the M&Ps.”

–Heck, no! Gotham, Theater Arts Bookstore, Argosy, those places on 17th Street, Different Light, another little place around the corner from the Strand–all staffed by booksy-wooksy types. Varying degrees of charm, it’s true; some of 'em are aging hippies or prim librarian types. But all very knowledgable and good at their jobs. I don’t know what NYC bookstores YOU go to!

57

Osip,

Here is a link to Cecil’s comments regarding GM and their deliberate efforts to destroy mass transit systems. It’s a good read.

58

I wondered about that, too. here’s the link to their corporate FAQs, they say they don’t donate money to any political parties or any reproductive issues.

59

But my remarks in that post were pretty much directed to Vandal’s post. We were discussing superstores vs. Mom&Pop retail stores in general, not bookstores.

The bookstore discussion has kind of splintered off into it’s own quasi-thread. (Aside to self: Bismark [or whoever] was right… it’s not easy fighting a war on two fronts!)

I’ll admit you are correct about our local indie bookstores – the HS-kid and ESL staff complaint DOES NOT apply to them, though it sometimes does apply to NYC B&Ns. But you are also right about the “varying degrees of charm”!

I mean, admit it. Is dealing with Mr. I-Love-Books-But-I’m-Not-So-Crazy-About-Hygene such a pleasure?

How about Mr. I-Love-Books-But-I’ve-Got-A-Poli-Sci-Exam-In-The-Morning-So-What-the-Fuck-Are-You-Asking-Me-For?

Or how about Ms. I-Love-Books-But-It-Pays-Like-Shit-Compared-To-What-You-Make-So-Stop-Complaining?

Or my favorite, Ms. I-Love-Books-More-Than-You-Do-So-Don’t-Come-Back-Until-You-Do?

I’ll bet you’ve seen them all. I have.

But part of my point is that you don’t see them as often as you used to – because B&N and the other chains have gotten them to clean up their act. Nothing like a good dose of friendly competition to raise the bar for everybody.

For example, it sounds like that indie book SUPERstore (notice, it’s NOT a dinky little shop) in Lexington with the smart staffers and the great coffee will give B&N a run for their money. Great! I hope they kick B&N’s ass! But they’ll do it because they’re bigger, better, and cheaper, not because they’re the sweethearts of Lexington’s book buyers.

60

“Madam in Eden?” I like that.

I agree with you about, oh, the snooty bitch at Argosy and rat-boy at the Strand (I HATE rat-boy!). But I don’t think B&N has gotten anyone to “clean up their act,” I think they just decimated the bookstore world.

Of course, it really goes back further than B&N—before I came to New York, there were scores of independent bookstores. Fourth Avenue used to be “bookseller’s row” back in the early- to-mid 20th century. Now, I think, the last Fourth Avenue bookseller has closed up shop.

Wha’ happened?