How does one “understand” the conservatives concerns that they have about how they hate gay people?
How does one “understand” conservatives who think that grabbing a woman by the pussy is acceptable, as long as you have enough money?
How does one “understand” the conservatives who tell us that health care is a privilege that only the wealthy may have?
These Nazis marching with torches are not the fringe anymore. They are becoming the core of your party. And this is the party that you’re having trouble dealing with.
We already understand this pretty well; the cure is to show them repeatedly and without rancor that LGBTQ people are all just people like them, and are not a threat to them. This is how same-sex marriage made such rapid strides. This approach takes patience and persistence, is that why you find it unappealing?
We already understand this pretty well too, and the cure is pretty much the same, which is to show them repeatedly that women are also people and that they have a right to be secure in their bodies. I think this one is harder than the LGBTQ thing because the way men treat women is more entrenched and more immediate to more people. Persistence without rancor is what works here as well.
They don’t actually say that, do they? You and I may interpret their proposed laws that way, this is because we refuse to look at any other concerns behind them. The cure is to come up with a plan that actually works for everyone, or at least for the huge majority. That may turn out to be single payer, but the US has what I think is a pretty unique legal structure (state vs. federal) that makes this more difficult to get agreement on than other countries.
My party? Can you people not read? I am neither a republican nor a conservative. I am a person who is apparently cursed with the ability to at least look at both sides of difficult issues. Does that make me a traitor in your eyes? If so, I think the problem is yours, not mine.
And I don’t agree that Nazis marching with torches are becoming the core of the Republican party. Maybe I’m too optimistic on this issue, but I don’t think it helps to run around shouting that the sky is falling.
There’s something else I want to say, and in a separate post. I’m not talking about compromising with evil. I am talking about separating the true evil from the misguided and afraid, and bringing people up out of their ignorance so that evil does not flourish. It is not practical to steamroller over a large plurality of the population and to behave as if their lives, values and concerns are nothing. The fact that each side visibly and publicly wants to do this to the other side accounts in large part for the lack of communication between them. I’d like to move in a different direction.
Once again, I agree. As a liberal, I can’t believe the shit I’m reading in this thread. Or, who knows, maybe I’m not a “liberal,” but a traitor to the cause. This is the same sort of crap I read on right-wing boards a few years ago. Executing anyone who doesn’t agree with you. For fuck’s sake, people.
So if someone assaults me, or voices the opinion that it’s ok to assault me, I should persist without rancor And just repeatedly show them that i have a right to be secure in my own body?
HOW? How can I gently show to them that I am a person and have a right to bodily security if they can’t see it already?
I am not advocating execution for anyone, I just don’t understand how I can show them this, without rancor, if they don’t see me as a person with rights already?
I agree that saying you want to execute your opponents is idiotic.
So is saying that if you just explain things patiently enough to the group of torch burning Nazis, then they will understand that gay people are OK, and that women are actually people with rights.
No. We’re done with that now. They’re not poor misunderstood folks with a different point of view. They are fucking Nazis who would put you in a camp in a minute.
If someone heard the pussy grabbing comments and then shrugged it off as not important, how can I show that person I am a person with rights to my own body?
And yes, I have relatives that voted for Trump. Are they Nazis? No. But they voted for him because the idea that he is a great businessman, or he was gonna drain the swamp, or appoint a conservative justice, was more important to them than the allegations of sexual assault. So how can I demonstrate to them that I as a woman have a right to bodily security?
…Euphonious Polemic isn’t talking about “half of America.” Euphonious Polemic is talking about the fucking Nazis. The pussy grabber supporters. The hypocrites. These people actually exist. Have you not seen them? Are you in a bubble?
I read what Trump supporters have to say from time to time. A lot of Trump supporters are thrilled with this because it has The Left in a tizzy. Trump is a strategic genius, y’see, and this is all about discombobulating the biased MSM (to what end is not exactly clear). Besides, he’s better than Crooked Hitlery and is doing a great job keeping his promises. #MAGA
Here’s my point of view: the same electorate that voted in Obama twice voted in Trump. A good percentage of them are staunch partisans on both sides that would never vote for the other party. This means there’s a percentage in the middle there that swings the vote one way or another. Calling all Trump voters traitors and even hyperbolically calling for their execution as some posters have in this thread accomplishes absolutely fuck all, and I feel hurts our cause. Obviously, YMMV.
Sorry about that. I should have replied without quoting anyone (in fact, I didn’t even realize I quoted him) as a general reply to the last 50 posts or so of this thread.
That kind of people exists in every country. The rest of us have the job to keep them from taking charge. Some of them love it when they stomp on someone’s foot and that someone yelps (“oh, I love liberal tears!”); others are so navel-gazing that they can’t even understand why someone would yelp at them (“people should just stay where they were born!” said to a ‘born elsewhere’ girlfriend, coworker, relative…).