I’m on house number 4 with a partner that I’m not married to.
If we were to split up, dividing the house would be among the easier of the things that would have to happen.
We are set up as joint owners, with right of survivorship. If the house is sold, we split the procedes, and we are jointly responsible for the debit. If one of us dies, the other inherits the house. These are pretty much check boxes on the modern mortgage/sales paperwork.
Business partners buy things together all the time. I would suggest using a real estate lawyer, but it’s not a big deal.
Well…sometimes yes and sometimes no. I’ve seen cases where both sides are now living with a new partner, and it’s essentially like offsetting penalties in football.
Sometimes the new partner is a very poor choice, from the standpoint of custody considerations–a convicted felon, drug user, spouse abuser, or even the trifecta of all three.
It is common for local judges to order no overnight “guests” of unrelated persons in whom the parent has a romantic interest when the children are present. It used to be “of the opposite gender”, but nowadays…well…the language has evolved.
The law is evolving as well. When I started practicing, cohabiting without marriage was pretty much an automatic kiss of death for a custody claim. Now, it’s just one of many factors the court will consider. Still a factor that carries substantial weight, but not necessarily decisive in all cases.
On the other hand, I can sure as fuck see not wanting my kids to be sleeping in a house with some random person that I didn’t vet and who has no connection to anyone or anything. I mean, if someone’s ex-wife was having a different random man through each night, does it seem valid that the father might object? It does to me, and I am not sure where you draw the line that a random man each night is not ok but something else is. Marriage is about the only clear place.
I’ve never been divorced, but I’ve gotten the impression from others that the property division (at least in my state) generally take into account all of the property. For example, if my husband and I were to divorce our assets would be split relatively evenly, as we have completely mingled our finances. It wouldn’t work out that I got the two vehicles because they are both titled in my name ,and the bank accounts that are in my name only, and half of the joint bank accounts and half of the house, while he got the bank accounts that are in his name only and half of the joint accounts and half of the house. (I know there are exceptions for property owned before the marriage and inheritances that were never mingled). We’d each get roughly half of the total value, even if that meant one of us got the house and the other kept all of the cash. That’s the part that’s not the same , and it’s where people can get screwed.
Let’s say I own a house with someone I’m not married to. When we decide we no longer want to be co-owners, one of us buys the other out or we sell and split the proceeds. That’s fine if the co-owner is my sister or my friend. It’s even fine if the co-owner is my SO and we go out of our way to keep our finances separate and treat the house as a business partnership- one of us writes the other a check every month for the mortgage or we have an account just for household bills where we deposit an equal amount of money from our personal accounts. It’s not so fine if we treat our finances more like a married couple- the mortgage payment comes directly out of my paycheck because it’s convenient, and that means more of his check goes into his 401K than would go there if we split the mortgage payment - after all, we’re planning to retire together. When we split up, if we can’t come to an agreement he’s getting half of the value of the house and I’m getting none of his 401K.
But that’s mixing things up. The OP was just talking about a house, not 401Ks or anything else. If you’re not married, but living together and renting, when you split up you’re not going to get part of the other person’s 401K, even if you spent the last 5 years paying the rent yourself. That’s just part of “not being married.”
At least with a house, you’d get half the value of the house. Either way, no 401K.
I think its a bad idea, but primarily because they haven’t lived together and have known each other for such a small amount of time. They are also putting their kids in a situation where they have to share space with ‘stepsiblings’ that they may or may not get along with. Step parenting and cohabiting with other people’s kids can be challenging enough in the best of circumstances, but just willingly throwing yourself into a situation in the hopes that everything will work out is a bad bet in my opinion.
I’ve heard that each time a person gets divorced, they are more likely (on average) to have their next marraige/relationship fail to work out. If your friend has already been divorced twice, she needs to be very careful, if not for herself, then for her kids.
My mom was in a somewhat similar situation; after her divorced she dated a guy with 3 kids. When he could no longer afford to keep up with his rent, she offered to have him move in with us. They were in some kind of domestic partnership (to allow him to be covered under my mom’s health insurance/dental plan, but EVERYTHING was in my mom’s name- the house, her car, etc. He helped her with the mortgage but she made sure to arrange it so that he couldn’t try to sue for his share of the house. He was fine with it because his contribution was a fraction of the rent he used to pay, and having health insurance for himself and his kids saved him an enormous amount of money. But my mom would have been crazy to buy a house with him.
I was responding to your statement that “It’s really not all that different than being married, having a house together, and then breaking up”. What I wrote is exactly how being married and buying a house is different from not being married and buying a house together. Not married- the house is split and any other assets are not involved in the division. Married- most assets are included in the division. You may not mind the difference, or you may be scrupulous about keeping the finances separate to avoid this issue but it *is *a difference. Not only is it a difference, depending on the values of the assets it might be very thing that allows one person to essentially buy the other out. (for ex, one person gets the $50,000 of equity in the house while the other gets $50,000 in other assets)
Rent is entirely different- it’s not an asset to be divided. The equity in the house gets divided , not the sum total of the mortgage payments. Those two numbers are usually not the same and if they are, it’s a coincidence.
I have an aunt who has lived with her best friend (a woman) for decades, too. It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that they might indeed be a gay couple (it’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” in that generation of our family, though).
That’s true enough.
The cops set up on the side of the sidewalk outside of a nightclub…
Oh yeah, I had forgotten about the kids. She needs to move much more carefully and slowly than someone without kids in the equation.
About 25 years ago an engaged co-worker told me she didn’t think her fiance’ was good enough for her. (Her only objection? He lacked a college degree, which meant he must not be a smart as she was.) But she was going to marry him anyway, she confided, because they’d bought a house together and she didn’t think she could get her money back if she broke the engagement.
And she thinks he’s the unintelligent one? I didn’t know him, but in my heart I thought, “Flee, whoever you are! Flee!”
I should add that they were divorced for maybe 3 or 4 months when she met the man she’s with now. She and husband #2 separated in early 2012. It goes without saying that she hadn’t been divorced from husband #1 all that long when she met this guy, either. Do we see a pattern here? THAT to me is more concerning than the house itself.
Your friend definitely has some red flags (but to be fair, even without knowing, I’m sure her SO probably has some subtle issues nobody will notice until after the fact). If kids weren’t involved I don’t think it would be as big of an issue since it would just be her putting her own ass on the line, but with kids her decisions could be affecting them for the worse.
In a Perfect World, after the end of a major relationship/divorce, people would give themselves a year to ‘work on themselves’ so that when they step back into dating they have a much better idea of what they want and what they won’t compromise on. Similarly, I think if someone had previous long-term live in relationships (be in marraige/relationship/friends-with-benefits) they should give themselves much more time getting to know a new SO before moving in with them.
But this is assuming an imaginary Perfect World where everyone behaves rationally, respects and enforces boundaries, and learns from their mistakes . I know in my case, I knew my wife for about two years before we got married. I wanted to live with her before we got married but it didn’t happen (so far in hindsight its not making much of a difference in my case). If we ever got divorced I know I would really try and give myself a year or more before getting in another comitted relationship, and wouldn’t be willing to marry more than once (or buy a house with someone either, for that matter).
IDK how long ago her boyfriend got divorced. It sounds like several years, at least.
I, too think she’s rushing into things - she’s obviously the type who always has to have a man in her life - but I can’t live her life for her. You’re all right, though, about what this may potentially do to their kids.
They closed on the house today. I also found out that the oldest child, a HS senior, has moved in with her father. Of course the whole story is NOMB, but I have a feeling that I wouldn’t want to know it anyway.
I did congratulate her and tell her that I look forward to seeing it, but I do not have a good feeling about this.
I don’t think that there’s anything inherently wrong with buying a house with someone to whom you’re not married, but I think they should have meticulous record-keeping about who brought what into the house, and who bought what after the fact. Just in case the relationship heads south.
I mean, it’s fairly easy to split equity 50/50. Not so easy to split the furniture, the new brass spigot on the bathtub, and 700 DVD collection. I might be tempted to put colored stickers on everything to remind us who paid for it, because if we split up, there’s no way in hell I’m walking away without my wagon wheel coffee table!
But she was going to marry him anyway, she confided, because they’d bought a house together and she didn’t think she could get her money back if she broke the engagement.
. I know in my case, I knew my wife for about two years before we got married. I wanted to live with her before we got married but it didn’t happen (so far in hindsight its not making much of a difference in my case). If we ever got divorced I know I would really try and give myself a year or more before getting in another comitted relationship, and wouldn’t be willing to marry more than once (or buy a house with someone either, for that matter).