That’s not really fair. Danner did take care of you once, and you did not give them a chance to do it again.
How on earth would Amazon know if the manufacturor had such a policy buried deep in the fine print? They’d have to hire a team of lawyers to do nothing but read every single listed product on their site.
And, it’s not Amazon’s problem, it’s the manufacturor for putting such a damn stupid escape clause in the warranty (one which is of doubtful enforcibily). They are the scamsters trying to get out of making things good on their product. :dubious:
Anyway, Amazon does stand by their products. I bought a small light for $9.99. It was defective out of the box. In the package was a tiny little warranty of about 16 paragraphs in tiny print. Basicly, it said “you are fucked”. The best part was the “lifetime warranty” which said that IF I returned the light Registered and Insured (my cost) and included a $10 “postage &handling fee” they’d send me a new lite!:rolleyes:
Amazon quickly gave me a full refund.
They explicitly said they would not honor the warranty again. They told me directly and clearly not to contact them with another problem.
But kudos to Amazon for making it right.
One issue is that there is a significant difference between voiding a warranty and the good never having had a warranty. The OP doesn’t actually say the warranty was voided. And indeed I don’t think it was ever suggested that it was voided. The issue is that there never was a warranty.
Voiding a warranty comes about because you messed with the goods and broke them yourself.
Lack of a warranty comes about because there is no-one who has stepped up to carry the risk. Warranties are not always covered by the manufacturer, and it depends upon the goods and the individual market what the situation is. In many markets it isn’t the manufacturer that takes the risk for faulty goods, it is the distributor or even the final reseller. The price the distributor or reseller gets the good for reflects this risk. If the manufacturer sells goods through an accredited distribution chain, and agrees with that chain that it is they, the manufacturer, that will take responsibility for warranties, the price the resellers pay for the goods will reflect that risk. In another market the same manufacturer may negotiate a deal whereby the distributor carries the risk for warranty, and sells the goods at a lower price to them. In that market the manufacturer is not the warranty provider and is quite within their right to say so.
Now on Amazon it isn’t clear what the channel was. But if the goods came by way of a path that didn’t include the warranty risk terminating at the manufacturer, they are probably not going to be too pleased.
This isn’t an unusual situation. The perhaps best known one in Nikon cameras in the USA. Nikon USA carry the warranty risk, not the manufacturer. This results in the converse situation. Nikon USA will not honour the warranty on an overseas purchased camera, since they didn’t get paid for carrying that risk. (They will honour the warranty for international travellers with appropriate documentation i.e. passport.)
Same here. I had no idea that something sourced via Amazon in 2011 as the primary seller (not as a re-seller) had potential warranty issues.
Having re-read the OP, I think that Dingbang should have contacted Amazon first, and been guided by what Amazon said. Perhaps Amazon offers it’s own warranty or refund policy for its products, beyond or apart from what a manufacturer would offer.
I do agree that so long as someone in the chain from manufacturer to retailer backs up the product, there’s no real problem.
I will also say that I have no experience in retail, so perhaps I am speaking from ignorance. But, yes, I would expect retailers to have relationships with their suppliers and to know the terms under which the products on their “shelves” are sold. And I would expect a large retailer to have access to a battalion of lawyers, or as many as necessary to review the contracts with their suppliers, including who is responsible for what in the case of defective merchandise.
According to the OP, there was a warranty, but only on items purchased through “accredited vendors”. I’m not enough of a lawyer to say for sure whether this set of facts constitutes “voiding” it in a legal sense, but I do know know enough about the English language to say it’s an adequate plain language term to describe those facts.
I am sure Amazon has plenty of lawyers, but Amazon doesn’t have many suppliers as such. Amazon is a listing service for most of the good sold on it’s site. The various wholesalers, jobbers, suppliers and middlemen just use Amazon as a listing service, and pay a fee.
On edit:
Ooops. Didn’t read thred properly. Post was redundant.
I generally enjoy and feel informed by your posts, but I’m going to have to demand a cite.
I sell a number of products on Amazon, and I’m quite certain that Amazon does in fact buy directly from the manufacturer on any number of items.
I’ve seen them stocking over 1,000 units of a brand new book the day that book is released, and at 40% off list.
It’s possible to buy overstock, remainder or other ‘not quite new’ books without dealing with the publisher.
It is impossible to get that many pieces of any single title on the day of release at 40% off list without buying from the publisher.
BTW, if the OP wants to message me, I can provide an email address at Amazon that will almost certainly get a satisfactory explanation of this matter for him, for his future reference. I’d post it, but posting that email tends to degrade its usefulness.
Sure, and if is says “fulfillment by Amazon” then it is. but most of the stuff is sold by outside vendors. Even so, Amazon mostly does books directly, and books are rarely a warranty issue.
Note that I said “but Amazon doesn’t have many suppliers as such. Amazon is a listing service for* most *of the good sold on it’s site.”
As you said- you sell on Amazon yourself. About 90% of the goods I have bought on Amazon have been from vendors. Mostly, when I buy direct from Amazon, it’s for a new bestselling book.
It is simply untrue that most of what Amazon sells directly is books. This information is available in their financial reports. Amazon stocks in their warehouses and directly sells apparel, tools, electronics, food, computers, software, jewelry, furniture and almost everything else you can think of. Many items are sold by other merchants, but not as many as you imply.
Well, here’s another bit of ignorance for me to fight.
If you want to buy from Amazon itself, you’re looking for items that are ‘Ships from and sold by Amazon’.
An item that says “Fulfillment by Amazon” actually means that the warehouse is owned by Amazon, the warehouse staff is employed by Amazon, the customer service staff is employed by Amazon, and that your shipping will be arranged by Amazon.
I am not Amazon, but I nonetheless have a few thousand items sitting on shelves in the Amazon warehouses in Breinigsville PA. Every one shows up on Amazon’s site with “Fulfillment by Amazon” on the associated listing.
It really isn’t a big deal, just something you have to chalk up to. Most things on Amazon have large discounts and it’s hard to find things that don’t have some margin of discount. When you buy something, there is a seller and it shows the seller’s name. Most the sellers have names you never heard of, that right there should be your agenda when using Amazon, sellers that are no names you shouldn’t expect a warranty although they still might grant you one. The seller may not have that item in stock when it breaks on you and they aren’t going to buy a special item for you when their supplier either can’t give them a discount anymore (unless bulk) or the product is discontinued.
The sellers on Amazon may include in the description if their items have manufactured warranties or you can email them and some even have phone numbers. So it may be worth it to contact them first. You could even google their names and see if they have a website.
You just viewed Amazon as one big store when it’s not… No big deal, the same sellers on Amazon are probably on Ebay as well, you wouldn’t expect a warranty from Ebay would you?
No, because Ebay clearly is an avenue for making a transaction with other parties, including individuals – akin to buying at a flea market rather than a department store.
Amazon can serve a similar purpose but in many cases, including this one, it gives every appearance of being a traditional retailer that puts its wares on display via the Internet rather than shelves in a store.
That’s the crux of this whole thing: Buying from Amazon (except when it’s clear you’re really buying from some other party through the Amazon site) seems to me and a lot of other people like buying from any other brick and mortar store where you wouldn’t think twice about whether the warranty on a $45 item will be honored. (Cartier watches, Nikon cameras, and such are a different issue. I’m talking about the kind of purchase you’d make at Target without thinking twice.)
It appears that assumption was wrong, so I guess ignorance has been beaten into submission once again. The other lesson is that Amazon’s service is great and I’d go to them if I encountered a similar problem again.
$45 ???
Sorry, but to put it bluntly, I think Danner Mfg. is being a prima donna prick about this. Maybe I’m missing some part of the story here.
Anyways, their advice to the consumer is asking for an unreasonable set of behaviors that nobody would do for a $45 item.
First, I went to Danner’s website to see if they have a “authorized dealers listing.” It didn’t. However, if you click around some more, you eventually get to a product focused website such as PondMaster. I guess this is where the average typical consumer who doesn’t have a million other things to do is supposed to diligently enter in their zipcode to see if Target, Home Depot, or amazon.com is on their “accredited” list. (None of those retailers are on their list.)
I do understand the whole “accredited/authorized” dealers relationship for certain items… especially high-ticket items. Yamaha warns customers about buying grey market pianos, Nikon USA about grey market cameras, etc. But the pond light thing seems illogical. Why exactly is such a restrictive dealer relationship in place for such a mickey mouse device? Do they think customers will drown in their pond while submerging their light underwater during the installation? Do the dealers don scuba gear to properly install it? At $45, it costs almost as much to UPS ship the thing back and forth for warranty purposes.
As a manufacturer, they certainly have every right to authorize any elite group of dealers they want. However, they also need to have a reality check about how customers will perceive their product and whether a warranty question mark would even be on the buyers’ radar.
Ok, thanks- but still, only a small % of goods are either ‘Ships from and sold by Amazon’ or Fulfillment by Amazon". And being that “Fulfillment by Amazon” is not “buying direct from Aamazon” that’s even less items sold direct by Amazon.
I’ve never read an annual report, but I wonder (honestly) about the claim of percentages. For the same reasons that I avoid eBay with a passion these days, I avoid purchasing anything from Amazon unless it specifically says “Ships from and sold by Amazon” in the ad. Heck, it’s the first box I tick when performing a search. And books are a miniscule portion of what I buy there. Maybe I’m just an outlier?
While its certainly possible that legally, Danner Mfg does not have to honor their warranty, I have no doubt that Amazon, who has a great customer satisfaction reputation, expects its suppliers to do whatever is necessary to satisfy the customer. Amazon knows it is their reputation on the line, and if a supplier becomes a problem, they will likely stop selling their products.
If one of Danner Mfg’s official suppliers is selling through Amazon, you should have been referred to them to take care of the problem(s).
Amazon seems to think that over 2/3 of sales on its site are items owned by and shipped by Amazon.
This is from the 2010 annual report:
Sales of products by marketplace sellers on our websites represented 31%, 30%, and 28% of unit sales in 2010, 2009, and 2008. Revenues from these sales are recorded as a net amount. Because we focus on operating profits, we are largely neutral on whether an item is sold by us or by another seller.
Cite:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsannual
Link: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9OTA4OTN8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Good cite.
Oddly, of my last three pages of Amazon purchases, exactly one was from Amazon, and only two from “fulfillment by Amazon”. Hmmm. I guess I am not a typical Ammy customer, altho they have made me a Vine Reviewer, so they must like something I am doing. 