You make really good points. I missed your link the first time so thanks for re-recommending I look at it. Looks like Beemers are off the list! 
Information overload! I’m glad we’re not in a hurry.
Per that chart, the no-brainer best choice is a Prius. Lowest average repair cost, lowest average operating cost.
Only problem is a clean one in good condition with low miles is more like 9 or 10k. The 2012 model year is when it went to Generation 3, which are more efficient and possibly more reliable than Gen2.
You can find servicable Priuses for 7k, though, they’ll just have more miles on them and be Gen2. If you do lose your traction battery, the repair costs between 1k and 2.4k, depending on if it’s a rebuilt or new replacement, but apparently the wear is low on most of the other components in the car. (even that battery can sometimes make it 300k+ miles)
Car dealerships provide a useful service: retail market making.
When you go buy a gallon of milk from your grocery store, you pay them more than they paid the dairy farmer, but neither you nor he got cheated.
Yes, that’s just how retail works. I wouldn’t consider it cheating anyone if a grocery store buys milk from a wholesaler for $1 and sells it for $1.50. The dealer buys cars for wholesale (usually at an wholesale only auction) and then sells them for what people are willing to pay retail. My stepfather might sell one or two cars in a good week, and some of them he loses money on, so he’s not getting rich even if he makes a grand or two or even a bit more on car.
So would you rather go to his lot near where you live where you can look at several dozen different makes and models, test drive them, take them to a mechanic for an inspection. Or would you rather go to a wholesale auto auction where you have seconds to decide if you want the car or not when you finally see it in person and are bidding against others, in a location that’s way out on the outskirts of the city.
Maybe he was being a bit strong by saying “cheating,” but looking at a flat margin, would you rather have a $20,000 car with a $3,000 margin, or a $7,000 with a $3,000 margin? Assuming, of course, that margins are completely flat. They’re likely a weighted curve, i.e, a percentage with a certain minimum flat, but on the lower end, you’re still disadvantage by that flat.
Yeah. I meant two different things :
- Fundamentally, because the transaction is more efficient, you are likely to find a better private party deal. The reason can be seen two different ways.
a. You’re cutting a middleman out, reducing a loss of about $3000+ to that middleman. This effect may be small on very expensive cars but it’s huge in the 7k price range. The reason is that whether you are detailing a 5k car or a 20k car, or inspecting it or storing it on the lot, it takes about the same amount of labor.
b. Long term average prices are determined by the market. A dealer isn’t going to offer much for a used car to a private party buyer. The average used car buyer isn’t going to offer a private party seller as much for the same car as they would offer it at the dealer, where that car has been cleaned up and pushed by a salesman.
So you can just sort Craigslist and autotrader into the price range and model you are looking for. Figure out what a dealer generally ask for the vehicle. Give private party sellers who are asking for less a call.
A lot or all of that $3000 is going to go to a private party seller. That’s why they try to sell it on Craiglist and put up with an endless stream of flakes and tire kickers that come with that rather than trading it in or selling it to a dealer for wholesale and getting rid of it immediately and without the hassle. Looking on Craigslist for $10,000-$15,000 RAV4s I didn’t see any selling for under blue book value, whereas a dealer was about $1000 more. Not chump change and maybe it’s worth it to spend time online, but not dramatic. Nowadays it takes about 5 minutes for a seller to find out retail value for their car.
Fair enough. I was looking at Toyota Camrys, and found that craiglist/autotrader were usually cheaper private party. Often, in the same price range, the private seller vehicle would have far less miles, and be cheaper.
A seller can only get retail value if people are willing to pay it.
Another installment in what may be an epic saga. I did manage to find some time today to drive a Pontiac Vibe, which is the same as a Toyota Matrix except for who put on the sheet metal (as I understand it). I wasn’t thrilled it was a 2005, so kind of old, but I liked the Toyota part and it was nearby. It has 98,000 miles on it. I really liked driving it but sitting in it felt pretty retro! It felt so old. I’m sure a lot of it had to do with manual windows and door locks. It didn’t occur to me that I even needed to worry about those!
I really did like the car in general, just not that one. It was quite a bit under our budget so I’m going to look at newer Vibes and Matrixes (Matrices?).
ETA: The Santa Fe was only two years newer, but it felt ten years newer compared to the Vibe.
UPDATE: We finally got one!! After driving a lot more crummy cars, doing another pre-purchase inspection on a rustbucket Mazda 3* and dealing with a whole lot of pushy salespeople, we finally bought our new-to-us tooling-around little car! We ended up with a local, one-owner, well-maintained 2008 Nissan Sentra in very good condition and got a heck of a deal. It just had a major price drop and it needs a few small not-immediate repairs, and we were able to get the price down $400 as a result, so we ended up $2,000 under budget. The more I drive it, the more I like it. It’s dark blue and I want to have it pinstriped with the Seahawks colors. 
I’m very, very pleased with everything.
Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction. It was a frustrating process, but it worked out in the end. I’ll never, ever, ever buy a used car without a pre-purchase inspection or a Carfax and I will strongly urge anyone else not to, either. I learned so much. If anyone else posts a thread like this I’ll certainly be able to help.
- Our tech said it looked like someone had left it wheels deep in the Pacific for ten years. It was otherwise a great-running car, but it was a nine out of 10 on rust. PASS!! The owner of the dealership asked if we’d take it at any price and the answer was a resounding “NO”. At least he wasn’t a defensive jerk about it like the idiots with the Santa Fe.