C K, I disagree with your reason for closing my thread.

The BBQ Pit
1

Last week I started a Cafe Society thread asking about copyright as it applies to cover songs. Earlier this evening it was closed, with the following reason given:

I posted all of three times in that thread:[ul][li]To make the OP[/li][li]To clarify what I needed permission for when someone gave me advice that didn’t fit my situation (still in hopes that someone who’d been in a similar situation might come along and share their experience)[/li][li]To say that the sources provided by my fellow Dopers weren’t conclusive, so I’d sent a letter to the publisher[/ul][/li]What, exactly, was “dangerous” or “stupid?” :dubious:

I was not looking for legal advice, as I stated in the OP. I also clearly stated in the OP that I had not posted the song in question, regardless of what the poster before you assumed (and it bugs me that I can’t correct The Highwayman’s assumption in that thread; it makes me look like I’m trying to get away with something, when in fact I’m after the very opposite … bite me, Highwayman).

If you know that I’m not stupid (as you say), it would have been nice to have been given the chance to say all of this in that thread. I didn’t violate SDMB rules, I have done nothing illegal or in violation of copyright laws, and I never even implied that I was going to take anyone’s word for anything. I was also hoping to post a follow-up once I heard back from the publisher, but now I can’t.

Maybe I’m just pouting, but I pride myself on never being “dangerous” or “stupid” (at least, not here) and I think that you both misunderstood and overreacted. It irks me that, when presented with two possible interpretations of what I was trying to get at, you assumed the worst when I’ve never given anyone here reason to.

So there. :stuck_out_tongue:

2

Did you try emailing Dex with this argument for reopening the thread? Such reconsiderations do happen.

I can see how you’d be annoyed,though. Maybe you could go ahead and email Dex anyway, ask him if he’d reconsider based on what you’ve said here.

No, I don’t know if it will work, but it can’t hurt to try.

3

I think Misnomer’s points are completely valid and justified, and the thread shouldn’t have been closed.

Sure, e-mail is best, but if you’re called stupid in a public forum I think you’re entitled to respond in an open forum.

But wait, SolGrundy – C K Dexter Haven didn’t call her stupid; he just said that the content of her posts was stupid! Well, that’s a distinction he seemed to have completely missed out on in this thread.

Seems like there’s a way to enforce board policies and keep this place orderly without being so fucking pompous and condescending, treating the subscribers like children. That, or taking board policies to pedantic extremes, and then acting all “what’s the big deal? why are you all getting so uptight?” when posters take the natural response, which is to wonder what the exact wording is and if there are any loopholes.

In fact, I know there’s a way to do it; I’ve seen other moderators do it plenty of times. Yeah, it’s a thankless job and it means wading through tons of bullshit everyday, but if it’s not possible for mods (not just Dex here) to do it without showing such disdain and conempt for posters, then why bother doing it?

4

I see your clarification and my statement still stands. I’m a musician too. I have recorded covers of songs that I have performed live. I haven’t paid the copyright holders a fucken dime. I didn’t make anything off their music either. I’m not assuming anything or coping some holier than thou attitude. So you see, I don’t care what you are doing with the song. I’m not chastising you for doing whatever it is you are doing, I’m only hipping you (and whoever else that reads this post) to the legal issues of the matter. To tell you the honest truth, I wish I had someone to teach me all this crap when I was starting out but hey, you can’t win them all.

Feel free to talk to a lawyer next time.

*Please note that anything posted by The Highwayman should not be assumed to constitute legal advice in lieu of consultation from an attorney.

5

For what it’s worth. I read that thread to mean Misnomer had done a cover and was interested in streaming it from a website, and what were the legalities behind doing so. I provided publisher/copyright holder info for the track, Misnomer wrote them a letter about distribution.

I don’t see how that crosses the line either.

6

As I re-read the thread it seems to be exactly what the SDMB is for - getting answers from people who are in the know about such things.

Misnomer was ignorant about distribution of a cover song. We were fighting that ignorance and letting Misnomer know the proper way to distribute this track.

7

As I’ve said before, I think the mods are, in general, much too quick to close threads that ask for medical or legal advice. Sure, there are many instances in which those threads should be closed. OTOH, there are also many instances (like this one) where the issue is minor and no one is going to be consulting a doctor or lawyer regardless. In these cases, some advice, taken with a grain of salt, is better than no advice.

8

It seems to me that the SDMB is getting further and further from it’s stated mission. We have more and more thread closures for dumbass reasons like the OP’s. We have more and more bullshit rules and corporate crap to deal with.

THis place is so much less than what it used to be.

Sam

9

Am I reading it all wrong or does it look like the OP was more interested in OPINION of a situation from people that may have experienced the same, rather than flat out legal advice?

I have to agree the limits of what can and can’t be posted are changing faster than many can keep up with. I understand that with so many posters around decisions have to be made quickly before anything gets out of hand, but it seems there has to be more discretion on the part of Mods and Admins. If a Mod states in the warning(?) that he knows a poster isn’t ignorant of board etiquette and rules, then proceeds to close the thread anyway, something was lost in translation, IMHO.

I guess given some recent things here it’s better to be safe and close any slightly off-looking threads, but some rational common-sense may be in order for some of these situations.
[sub]Runs like a little bitch from Dex[/sub]

10

Misnomer, I’ve now looked at your thread. IAAL, but not in your jurisdiction and not in the area of the law you wrote about. Your post does ask for legal advice, namely, you wanted to know how the law applies to a personal situation. Writ broadly, that’s legal advice. However, I think duffer is right: you were actually asking for opinions/experiences from other people. And although I have no right to do this, I will: speaking on behalf of all the lawyers on the boards, we’re smart enough to recognize the difference. You’ll note that you didn’t get any legal advice in response; instead, you got suggestions on how to get answers from people who know (i.e., the publisher).

In addition, it was quite clear that you did not change the nature of your OP throughout; in other words, while you did clarify, you did so only because people were either not reading your OP closely, or because they added some facts that differed from what you were asking about, and you clarified so as to keep the channels of information flowing. In short, under the “explanation” Dex gave for closing your thread, had you included tons of nit-picky details in the OP (okay, by tons, I think maybe two more details), the thread could have stayed open.

In addition, there are plenty of threads on these boards where I see people are asking for legal advice, IMO: here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. Note that this doesn’t include thread hijacks or when threads morph into a request for legal advice. Do I think all these threads should be closed? No. Do I think that any of the OPs are seriously asking for legal advice? With one exception, no.

If there’s a rule here, it’s to stay out of Cafe Society with a question tangentially related to the law; all the other threads are in other fora. My two cents.

Boy howdy, is this true. You ought to put this in larger font, though, so as not to trap the unwary. And you can drop everything after “in lieu of” because the rest of the sentence is irrelevant.

11

Thanks for the supportive statements, everyone!

As I was previewing the OP, I did think “Hmm, maybe I should just e-mail him?” But the “dangerous” and “stupid” comments annoyed me (and, like Sol says, I figured that a public questioning of my public hand slap wouldn’t be out of order), and I also wanted to address what The Highwayman wrote. So, I figured I’d just keep it here.

Honestly, at this point I don’t care that much anymore. The Pit served its purpose: I got my frustration off my chest, and the chance to respond to something in a closed thread. People kept not paying attention to what I wrote over there, anyway (not just Dex), so the only thing I could gain at this point is the ability to post a follow-up when I hear from the publisher … meh.

:dubious:

“whether or not whoever represents the copyright holder … wants to send you a nice cease and desist letter is entirely up to them”

“If you are comfortable with that then keep the song up there”

You assumed that the song was already posted online, even though I said in the OP that it was not. I’m not saying that you were copping a “holier than thou” attitude, I’m saying that your post gave the impression that I was trying to get away with something. You seemed to have completely ignored everything in the OP after the question you replied to, in a thread where I was being careful to avoid any appearance of being a scofflaw. That’s what the “bite me” was for.

Ok, that was uncalled for: I started that thread because I didn’t know whether I needed to talk to a lawyer – which, it turns out, I did not.

Can you guess what I’m gonna say next?

Bite me. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, I even said in the OP that I wasn’t sure whether to put it in Cafe Society or GQ, but I figured with it being about music it could start in CS and then get moved if necessary. I have learned my lesson. :wink:

12

I’d advise you to set up your own website for these type questions

13

But … but… :frowning:

14

I too have had a thread closed by him, and I was also very upset by it, but I e-mailed him, after I calmed down, and it was reopened, and I got a few more good responses out of it.

As far as I can tell, he is kinda over-worked, and things which would be clear on a second reading escape him, when he is rushed, and he is doing the best he can.

So…

Take it easy on him, wouldya?