Call The Cops, Get Evicted

[nearwildheaven]

@Ravenman

Thanks for the summary. What I totally do not understand is how someone can get arrested for assault and aggravated assault three times, which appear to be just within a few weeks, and be let out of jail each time. Does the case discuss how this guy got out of jail? Did he get bailed out each time, or were charges dropped? The guy seems like a sociopath and it just boggles my mind that a judge would allow him back on the streets with that record

The OTHER reason cops hate domestic violence calls so much is because they know that arresting (usually) him is going to be a total waste of time, because (usually) she will just bail him out first thing in the morning.

There’s not much anyone can do when this kind of thing happens. And when she does leave, it’s not going to do her any good for her to call him up and tell him where she is, either. Many years ago, I worked with a woman who had lived for a while in a DV shelter, and she told me that the most common reason for kicking women out of the shelter was contacting the abuser. :eek: That even superseded other things like bringing in drugs or alcohol, or threatening children, staff, or other clients. And any woman who was kicked out for this reason was barred from returning to this shelter for 6 months; she could use other shelters in the area, but not this one.

[monstro]

@nearwildheaven

Many years ago, I worked with a woman who had lived for a while in a DV shelter, and she told me that the most common reason for kicking women out of the shelter was contacting the abuser. :eek: That even superseded other things like bringing in drugs or alcohol, or threatening children, staff, or other clients. And any woman who was kicked out for this reason was barred from returning to this shelter for 6 months; she could use other shelters in the area, but not this one.

That’s harsh, but totally justifiable.

Seems to me that anyone who has a problem with the landlord law should also have a problem with a shelter evicting a resident for contacting an abuser. In both cases homelessness results. And both policies are intended to protect the safety and comfort of other people.

[Peremensoe]

@monstro

Seems to me that anyone who has a problem with the landlord law should also have a problem with a shelter evicting a resident for contacting an abuser.

No. The law punishes her for calling for help. This policy is based on her, effectively, subverting help in place. Really very different.

[Peremensoe]

@nearwildheaven

The OTHER reason cops hate domestic violence calls so much is because they know that arresting (usually) him is going to be a total waste of time, because (usually) she will just bail him out first thing in the morning.

That’s not an entire waste of time if it forestalls a continuing assault that would have resulted in more serious injury or death. The must-arrest policies were put in place, in part, for just this reason–people had been killed after police left the scene.

Beyond that, isn’t the solution to take it out of her hands? Activate the eviction on the assailant, not the victim, for example.

[monstro]

@Peremensoe

No. The law punishes her for calling for help. This policy is based on her, effectively, subverting help in place. Really very different.

So what is the solution?

How do we help victims without screwing up the quality of life for the neighbors?

Would you want to live next door to hollering and screaming people, who have knock-down-drag fights full of crashing and cursing?

Honestly, what is the solution to this problem that is kind and compassionate for everyone involved? Because I can only think of two solutions for the neighbor: break your lease and leave or complain to the landlord/police until someone gets evicted.

[AnaMen]

I would speak directly to the victim, almost as if we weren’t living in a dystopic pseudo-society where every solution involves a telephone. Acting as if I were a compassionate human being, I would offer expressions of support and attempt to assist the victim in getting help to change his or her unfortunate situation. Yes, I would be putting myself at some risk, but safety is not my top priority.

[Martin_Hyde]

@AnaMen

I would speak directly to the victim, almost as if we weren’t living in a dystopic pseudo-society where every solution involves a telephone. Acting as if I were a compassionate human being, I would offer expressions of support and attempt to assist the victim in getting help to change his or her unfortunate situation. Yes, I would be putting myself at some risk, but safety is not my top priority.

Then you’re an imbecile. You’d have to be to interject yourself in a domestic violence situation.

[AnaMen]

I understand why a sociopath would see it that way.

[monstro]

@AnaMen

I would speak directly to the victim, almost as if we weren’t living in a dystopic pseudo-society where every solution involves a telephone. Acting as if I were a compassionate human being, I would offer expressions of support and attempt to assist the victim in getting help to change his or her unfortunate situation. Yes, I would be putting myself at some risk, but safety is not my top priority.

What if she says, “Buzz off, asshole. I can handle myself just fine. I don’t need no goodie-two-shoes getting in my bidness.”

And then the next day, it’s another round of Fight-o-Rama, with screaming and crying and brick-throwing and body-slamming. What do you do then?

[Tethered_Kite]

Or, as frequently happens, when they both turn on you as a cause of problems?

Or worse yet, if the abuser decides to silence your interference in his relationship?

[AnaMen]

@monstro

What if she says, “Buzz off, asshole. I can handle myself just fine. I don’t need no goodie-two-shoes getting in my bidness.”

And then the next day, it’s another round of Fight-o-Rama, with screaming and crying and brick-throwing and body-slamming. What do you do then?

I would offer my help because I think it’s the right thing to do. I won’t crumple to the ground in despair if the person calls me names or does not welcome my presence. Their reaction is their decision. When their altercation became audible, it became other people’s business and I would say as much.
I also will not sit quietly in my apartment and listen to someone being brutalized. I would knock on the door, hopefully after recruiting back-up, and if it’s answered, I would indicate that I had heard a disturbance and was checking to see if everyone was okay. If the door was not answered, I would call the police.
I have helped a few people get out of these situations, and I do not regret even my failed attempts. I have provided childcare, driven someone to a shelter a couple of times, and built up self-esteem. I don’t need or want a risk-free life.

[AnaMen]

@Tethered_Kite

Or, as frequently happens, when they both turn on you as a cause of problems?

Or worse yet, if the abuser decides to silence your interference in his relationship?

What, then both attack me? Exceedingly unlikely, but a chance I’m willing to take rather than turn up the volume of my TV like a jerk. A coward dies a thousand deaths and all that.

[nearwildheaven]

@monstro

That’s harsh, but totally justifiable.

Seems to me that anyone who has a problem with the landlord law should also have a problem with a shelter evicting a resident for contacting an abuser. In both cases homelessness results. And both policies are intended to protect the safety and comfort of other people.

The reason they did this was because their resources were so limited, and they needed to use them for people who would actually benefit from them. This was in the Phoenix, AZ region.

Many DV agencies also have satellite shelters, for situations where the abuser knows where the shelter is (a police officer, for instance) or they have a male client. Most of these men are in gay relationships, but not always. Some of them do motel vouchers, and others are in private homes, but I read on another board about someone who did this, and the woman called her abuser and told him exactly where she was. He showed up and, among other things, took the host family’s teenage daughter hostage for several hours. As that poster said, “At that point, I stopped wondering who the real victim was.”

[sidhechaos]

@woodstockbirdybird

It’s easy to say “Get out of that situation” if you assume they have somewhere to go or some means of supporting themselves, which is not always the case. But you know that. It’s also easy to judge people for behavior you once exhibited but have grown beyond, but empathy is usually the more human reaction.

I can see the person committing the domestic violence being evicted, but the victims?(usually women and children?)

I had to deal with this shit, when you are disabled, unemployable, (I at least had had the sense not to have kids) and no family, you’d be amazed at lack of options. womens shelter would not take me, no kids and disability was an insurance liability. could not get assist from the state until I had lived away from him two months. no income for motel, was told to live out of my car(during feb and march, about 100 miles south of canada border. while disabled)

thank god I became a widow. sometimes karma really** does** bite the deserving person in the ass at just the right time.

[sidhechaos]

@BottledBlondJeanie

A domestic abuse victim can get over it given the right help. Shelters are not great and fairly scary to seek help from for some. Being able to move isn’t particularly indicative of anything. Leaving, moving, finding a safe place for kids while getting and enforcing a restraining order takes a ton of time–not to mention going through a divorce if you’re married.

If the victim had a low paying job, it’s likely this time and effort will amount to unemployment. Many male abusers make sure the woman doesn’t have a job so she can’t easily be independent.

Many victims need to take baby steps to finally leave. Abusers are excellent at cutting off support systems and destroying the victim’s self esteem and belief that he/she can get out or deserves to get out. Add that to the fact it usually takes several times of leaving for it to finally stick and the remaining support system tends to disappear since the victim keeps going back. Kinda’ like the frustrated people here.

The frustration that the victim won’t leave or keeps going back is understandable. However, there doesn’t seem to be a great deal of real understanding about why the person keeps going back.

not to mention in many instances if the victim tries to protect themself (say you threw dickhead out and got a restraining order. he breaks in and you tazer him or mace him or hell, shoot him, YOU get in trouble! )restraining orders don’t mean shit, and I’ve never heard of a woman be cleared in self defense. It may have happened and I don’t know it, but I’ve never heard of it. Men, yes, usually on B and E with armed robbery, but not women self defending even after multiple restraining orders.

[sidhechaos]

@Martin_Hyde

I feel sorry for perpetual victims of domestic violence the same way I feel sorry for fall-down drunk alcoholics. But just like I don’t want a fall down drunk alcoholic passed out in the courtyard of a residential building we manage I don’t want the many other paying customers in that same residential building to persistently and repeatedly lose the quiet enjoyment of their home due to domestic violence.

Generally, landlords are not equipped to solve domestic violence, but we are equipped to take action when one set of tenants denies other tenants at a property the quiet enjoyment of their home. Especially when it is strengthened with local ordinance, as it appears to be here.

As a human being I’d love it if I could wave a wand and “save” that woman in the story from her abuser. But this is the real world, and whatever problem that has lead to her being a victim, it’s not something a land lord is equipped to fix. Since she allows the situation to continue there is no way to provide relief for the rest of the tenants without legally removing both of them from the property.

many women could stop the abuse by shooting/poisoning/repeatedly tasering or macing the fucker when he starts, but for some reason its not okay to protect ourselves, even if we have gotten restraining orders and kicked the bastard out..

I just lucked out the bastard got cancer and died.

[sidhechaos]

@Chimera

Does the guy live there? No? Then you’re not getting evicted. Stop making up shit to fit your agenda. Someone invades your space and you call the police does not equal ‘domestic disturbance’.

wrong. even if he’s been thrown out and there is a restraining order and you’ve started divorce proceedings, he shows up and starts shit and is still technically your spouse, its domestic disturbance. If his name is on the lease, despite restraining order denying him living there, its domestic disturbance.

[sidhechaos]

@AnaMen

The law penalizes landlords who do not evict. That does not allow the landlord to use his or her judgement regarding the situation, and pushes tenants into a situation where they will absolutely not call the police no matter what is happening. That isn’t good for anybody.

You mention the “general concept that it’s reasonable to evict someone if a lot of disturbances happen over and over again in their unit–regardless of the cause after a certain point.” What if these disturbances have nothing to do with domestic violence? Perhaps someone needs an ambulance frequently for a period of time because of a recurring health problem. Should they be kicked out because ambulances are loud and annoying?
In the case you describe, the landlord should have the abuser trespassed and state that HE may not return to the property. Where I live, the victim gets no real say in whether the abuser is arrested and need not press charges. Repeated offenses will get the abuser legally banned from contact with the victim, regardless of the victim’s desires. Making the victim homeless or discouraging summoning the police is thus completely unnecessary.

you seem to live somewhere semi sane

I envy you.

[sidhechaos]

@Peremensoe

No. The law punishes her for calling for help. This policy is based on her, effectively, subverting help in place. Really very different.

what if she had to contact because of a divorce court date? I actually had a friend sign power of attorney over to me for a limited time so I could go to the meetings and court case for her so he could not track her down.

[WhyNot]

@Peremensoe

Beyond that, isn’t the solution to take it out of her hands? Activate the eviction on the assailant, not the victim, for example.

Works if there’s a clear and consistent victim, and yes, I agree that in such situations, that’s exactly what should be done.

@AnaMen

I would offer my help because I think it’s the right thing to do. I won’t crumple to the ground in despair if the person calls me names or does not welcome my presence. Their reaction is their decision. When their altercation became audible, it became other people’s business and I would say as much.
I also will not sit quietly in my apartment and listen to someone being brutalized. I would knock on the door, hopefully after recruiting back-up, and if it’s answered, I would indicate that I had heard a disturbance and was checking to see if everyone was okay. If the door was not answered, I would call the police.
I have helped a few people get out of these situations, and I do not regret even my failed attempts. I have provided childcare, driven someone to a shelter a couple of times, and built up self-esteem. I don’t need or want a risk-free life.

This is a great list. I “ditto” all of it.

I await the future installment, where you offer more suggestions for when all of that’s been (repeatedly, every single time) done, and it hasn’t stopped the behavior. Because I can’t think of anything else.