Calling a PhD "Doctor".......

[Sir_Doris]

On a rare library visit I looked up the subject in a couple of etiquette guides.

Debrett’s concentrates on the formal, though formal means “proper” rather than just “professional”. The second book is based on business etiquette and has chapters on England (I didn’t check for Scotland, sorry) and the US. This was the only book I could find with anything on US etiquette.

From Debrett’s Correct Form:
**
“The recipient of a doctorate conferred by a university … is entitled to be addressed as ‘Doctor’.”
“The recipient of an honorary doctorate is entitled to the style of ‘Doctor’”.
“It is a matter of choice whether the appropriate degree(s) should be placed after his (or her) name or to address the Doctor as Dr. …It is, however, recommended that the letters, where known, are used to distinguish him (or her)from a medical practitioner who is known as ‘Doctor’, whether or not he is a doctor of medicine”
“The title [of doctor] has become so wedded to the medical profession that the reminder is needed that not all qualified medical men hold the final degree…Those medical men who have not taken their final degree are addressed in every way as if they have, excepting that their actual qualifications, such as M.B., L.R.C.P., would be substituted for M.D. on the envelope, or, as is nomal with general practitioners, they are called simply Dr. -----”**

From “Kiss, Bow or Shake Hands: How to do Business in Sixty Countries”, Morrison, Conway, and Borden
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US:
“To show respect, use a title such as Dr., Ms., Miss, Mrs., or Mr. with the last name.”
“When you meet someone for the first time, use a title and their last name until you are told to do otherwise”

England:
“Rather than ‘sir’, you should use the title of the person you are addressing”**

My impression is that it is ok to call PhD’s “Doctor”, but it is more common to add their last name. I also see I have been using MD incorrectly to refer to and MB or equivalent when it should be reserved for a Doctor of Medicine (i.e. a higher degree). Wonderful books, both of them, full of useful gems.

BTW, Katie, yes, it is a Big Knights ref., I guess I have a thing about titles

[Katie]

*Originally posted by Yeah *
**

I have always heard that in the U.K., only physicians are addressed as “doctor” and that surgeons are called “mister.”

If a Dr Dr in the U.K. has never heard of an M.B. I can only assume that the degree has been abandoned in the U.K. but I have run into many MBs and ChBs from former British colonies (other than the U.S. and Canada). MB is bachelor of medicine and ChB is bachelor of surgery.
**

Doctors in the UK are called “mister” if they’ve passed the Royal College of Surgeons exams, “doctor” otherwise (except for a few who have been made professors).

In the UK the medical degree is MBChB, taught as a combined course - maybe the Dr just isn’t used to seeing MB referred to on its own, since I think you can only get an MB in the UK as part of an MBChB, not as a degree in its own right.

[zut]

*Originally posted by City Gent *
[Then I] went to work for a company where maybe 1 in 20 people has a Ph.D. It’s custom in this company to use first names, so I didn’t get called “Doctor” much. But then, I noticed that whenever I was called upon to deal with a customer, I was loudly and obviously introduced as “Doctor Gent”, so as to impress the customer with my superior abilities. That, I do not care for.

Why, City Gent? I presume that, even though only 1 in 20 people at your company has a PhD, the ones who do (including you) get paid a little more, yes? Or at least have slightly different duties? If your company feels that it’s worthwhile to retain PhDs on the staff, why shouldn’t that commitment be communicated to customers? Now, if your PhD was in, say, history, and you’re working at a civil engineering firm, then you’re right to be queasy. However, if your credentials are being properly represented, I don’t see why your company can’t take pride in you.

With that being said, I guess that I prefer not to be called “Doctor Zut,” even in a professional situation, because it seems much too formal. Actually, even “Mister Zut” seems off-putting in verbal communication. For professional written communication, I compromise on my business card by putting “Zut, Ph.D., P.E.”

[CC]

Yep - the title “Doctor” is a sign of respect - almost always from those who DON’T hold such a degree for those who DO. And when I got mine, I am terribly ashamed to admit, I was so jazzed by the fact that I was DOCTOR so and so, that I referred to myself that way several times - even in trying to get a reservation at a restaurant. I quickly came to my senses, however, when I realized that I was bestowing a term of respect onto myself, a form of hubris that is astonishingly self-reverential. When I teach graduate or undergraduate courses, I introduce myself by my name - no Mister, no Doctor. Just my name. My title is printed on the course syllabus, however, and students often call me Doctor after reading that. Just sticking with the doctoral program to the end is not enough of an accomplishment to deserve the title, although those who have NOT done it seem to think that’s what it’s about.

[JubilationTCornpone]

Originally posted by JThunder *
**
For example, I serve on the board of directors of a local charity. One day, a staff member typed up a letter for me to sign – and she put my name down as “Mr. D V,” even though she knew about my doctorate. That irritated the HECK out of me! As I said, I don’t normally inform people of my Ph.D., but doggone it, don’t presume that I want to be called Mister instead!*

I think that’s perfectly reasonable. It’s not arrogance; after all, you’re not flaunting your doctorate. Rather, you’re simply asking that people don’t arbitrarily dismiss your title, as though it didn’t matter.

As another poster said, why not err on the side of politeness? If the PhD doesn’t want to use the title, they can always mention that later. And of course, if you don’t feel like addressing him as Doctor, you don’t have to. Just use his full name. Don’t call him “Mister” instead, as that would be a subtle slap in his face.

[Speranza]

“Doctor” literally means “learned”. The title is not at all limited to medical learning, and has never been reserved for physicians alone. So there should be no problem with calling a Ph.D. “Doctor”.

My Ph.D. defense is scheduled for May. Should I pass I will be delighted to be addressed as Dr. The problem is, I cannot imagine asking anyone to do so!

[Quasimodem]

As the OP, allow me to jump in here once again and restate my question in another way: If you were an attorney cross-examining someone who has a PhD, would you address this person using only the title “Doctor” or would you use his or her full name to avoid any confusion as their expertise? (This is assuming of course that as an attorney you had already covered this person’s qualifications as a witness).

As a “rookie” to this board, I appreciate the attention you all have given this question, and for my purposes it has been answered.
Q

[Quasimodem]

“as TO their expertise”

Sorry

Also I am aware that by the above example I have probably created yet another “grey” area, but I just thought it was better than the one I used in the OP (talk-show host).

Thanks

Q