I don’t know whether or not this belongs in GD or IMHO
Hi Opal!
I smoke
I am not a fan of taxation even though I admit its necessity
So, I buy a pack of smokes. Salem, to be exact (always smoke menthols in the winter) and lo!-when I open the pack I see a new strange marking where the “20 Class A Cigarettes” label usually is. Here is the wording:
So, uh, someone is breaking the law selling these within the borders.
Call him on it?
Let’s have it out…if not, why? If so, why?
You should point this out to the retailer, and tell him he shouldn’t be (as best you can tell) breaking the law. (If you pay taxes, it is your business as his tax evasion causes your tax burden to go up somewhere else). If he admits to knowingly breaking the law but refuses to change, you should probably stop shopping there. Sometimes a carton ends up on the wrong truck of course, and that may be the case here.
These cigarettes were (probably) illegally re-imported after purchase at a duty-free shop. Here in my part of Austin, TX (3.5 hr drive to the Mexican border), just about every non-chain convenience store sells these duty free Marlboros. From first hand experience, a carton goes for about US$18 at the duty-free in Laredo, and about US$27 plus 8.25% sales tax here in Austin.
While I do not think it is going to cause the fall of the US (and Texas) govt. by lack of tax revenue, it does piss me off that none of the savings is passed on to the consumer.:mad:
When you do call him on it, you will probably get little or no reaction. (At least that was my experience).
The gov’t is gonna tax us one way or another. If a person finds a way around it, then more power to him/her.
I don’t think tax evasion is very new, I’m guessing it’s as old as prostitution.
Tax evasion is sort of like cable theft. There is low risk to get caught, and there is a high penalty. Somewhere there is a probability that the dollars saved is worth (or not worth) the risk.
But until I or someone figures out that probability, I’m paying for my taxes and cable, 'cause I’m a chicken shit.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m not pissed because he found a way to do the same thing cheaper, its that I am not seeing any of that savings(as TX mentioned). He still charged me the same price.
I am no fan of the government. I wouldn’t be doing this to help them but to deal with a crappy businessman. As it stands, you see, the tax on cigarettes is about 75% of the cost. Now, of course that is a whole buch of taxes all combined and “tax-free” doesn’t mean RJ Reynolds didn’t pay something to export those puppies which are included in the cost.
$4 a pack is right. I usually roll my own for the low low price of $10 for over a carton of smokes. But, every once in a while I like to partake the fine machine-rolled wonders that big business can produce. Mmmmm. (mouth watering yet freedom? )
I think in about two weeks I’ll buy another pack and see what happens then. If they’re still duty-free I’m gonna ask for a better price. Bastard.
Look, aynrandlover.
The store owner is a business owner in the US. That makes him/her a god.
You’re a consumer. That makes you pigeon-poop. You’re also a smoker, which doesn’t help your case at all.
So pay whatever you’re told to pay and shaddup.
Weak Willie is gone, and things are gonna change around here.
Peace,
mangeorge
So, your ‘moral question’ is - “since the guy is stealing from the government, hows come he isn’t passing that savings on to me?” Your point being, apparently, that as long as the theif shares their spoils it’s ok? Just so I’m clear.
You can agree/disagree on taxation. That’s one of the things that started our country. But to come here to ask a ‘moral’ question, when apparently what you were looking for was support in your aim to ‘share in the wealth’ is, well interesting, to say the least.
do what you will. Shrug. I always find it interesting to compare names and attitudes on threads like these and ones about offenders.
Originally posted by aynrandlover
I think in about two weeks I’ll buy another pack and see what happens then. If they’re still duty-free I’m gonna ask for a better price. Bastard.
nope.
So we’re clear, I don’t really care what you do.
[emphasis added]
As well, you might note that I’m not asking you to care about what I do. My post is to get opinions and their reasons on what others feel is a preferred choice. Like most posts in GD. “Is abortion wrong?” “Is Bush really a liar?” “Have we really proven anything?”
As in…“This guy avoided taxes. Would you call him on it? Turn him in? Why?” Sorry I exchanged “would you” and used “should I” in the post. I know GD can be confusing.
Let me see here now… yes, well,it is a complex question, with lots of ramific… no, screw this- it is clear as a bell. Turn the bastard in, or move to another country. You don’t like taxes- vote out the politicians. You think a Law is bad- practice civil disobediance- which is not quietly going along with a crime. You live here- you follow the rules- or go elsewhere.
Tax 'avoidance" is legal, Tax 'evasion" is illegal- and thus wrong.
Uh, law != morality. I would especially think this so for a Christian, no?
But, yes, that’s why I even brought it up. I am not for taxes, but that doesn’t mean I am also not up for busting someone who’s skimping on it. This isn’t a mandatory case, though. I wouldn’t turn in a drug dealer, for example, though this is technically tax evasion too (unless, miracle of miracles, the guy claims his money earned haha…writing off raves!!! ).
They are different situations to me. I follow my morality, and when it suits me the law as well. In some instances, like this one, I may act within the law and go against my own morals.
Need to come up with something better than “because its illegal!” Or do you forget how much Jesus ragged on the tax-collectors in Matthew?
In your title: “calling ALL moralists on tax evasion” and in your OP, you gave two options: “So, uh, someone is breaking the law selling these within the borders. Call him on it? …(paraphrased) why or why not” Then, later on, you suggested what I’d quoted, which, frankly sounded to me like yet another option that hadn’t been presented. Shrug. My stance remains the same.
But, since you wish to have things spelled out for you:
Yes, it’s tax evasion.
Yes, it’s illegal.
Your options are:
to let some one in authority know that he appears to be evading required taxes.
Ignore it and buy them from him anyhow.
Ignore it but buy them elsewhere
Buy them from him but attempt to coerce him into sharing his ill gotten gains with you by pointing out you’re aware of his transgression.
Don’t really care personally which you choose, but since you were requesting moral opinions and whys:
Option 4, to me is clearly the least moral decision - it would have you partake in his illegal activity and profit by it, creating two wrongdoers where there had been one. Option 2 would have you continue to knowingly assist him in profiting from his wrongdoing, which in a sense still, at least has two wrong doers ( you have knowledge that the required taxes have not been paid). Option 3, you wouldn’t be in the position of 'busting ’ him, but you wouldn’t be assisting him in his criminal endeavors. Option 1 would be the ‘civic’ minded thing to do, if you consider tax evasion to be a financial crime against all of us. Taxes collected on various products go to pay for programs/services etc. that benefit all.
Assuming that law = morality I would agree with you and the “civic minded thing to do” would be the thing to do. I’ll go ahead and assume that’s what you mean…
But, since you don’t really care, then you’re not much of a moralist and law doesn’t necessarily equal morality.
Ahh! Its still not clear!!
JC ragged on those “publicans” who were collecting MORE than the alloted amounts of taes- since almost all taxes were collected by what we sometimes call “tax farming”. Note also- “render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars”.
But, yes, if you feel a law is unjust or wrong, you DO have “moral” options, as I said before. Civil disobediance, or trying to change it. “Going along with illegal activity” is neither, and is thus not moral.
).