Poster A expesses disdain for Thing X because they think it’s stupid. Poster B comes charging in calling Poster A elitist. This is getting really old, because it’s, you know, WRONG!
From M-W:
Main Entry: elit·ism
Pronunciation: A-'lE-"ti-z&m, i-, E-
Function: noun
1 : leadership or rule by an elite
2 : the selectivity of the elite; especially : SNOBBERY <elitism in choosing new members>
3 : consciousness of being or belonging to an elite
Saying, for instance, that wrestling is stupid, while arguable, is not elitism. (I don’t necessarily have that view, I’m just using it as an example).
For those who employ this tactic, please stop and find a better way to express your disagreement, because calling it elitism is, well, stupid. And by the way, that statement is NOT elitism, either.
Oh, and while you’re at it it’s LOSE, not LOOSE, godfuckingdamnit!
In the case of wrestling though, many were protesting on the fact that it is so incredibly low brow (“Omg! Wrestling is so fake and trashy! How could anyone with taste be interested in that!?”). In that case, I could certainly see the cries of elitism as valid under your second point.
True. If you say it like that, it’s getting kind of snobby. If you say “I don’t like it, I think it’s stupid” and leave it at that, I think that charges of elitism are unwarranted. I reckon how you say it has a lot to do with it.
Oh, yeah, this is the fucking pit, so we’re supposed to say shit like goat-felching smegma licking sonofabitch, and all that.
Actually, no matter how you say it, the charges of elitism probably still have merit. I am going to assume that when referring to professional wrestling, you’re using this definition of stupid: pointless, worthless. It seems to be the only one that could apply. Assuming that is the case, the reason for calling professional wrestling “pointless or worthless” implies elitism in that it degrades the entertainment choice of another. Professional wrestling is no more “pointless” or “worthless” than, say, Survivor, CSI: Miami, Harry Potter, etc. The point is to entertain. The value is in the entertainment. No?
If someone condemns professional wrestling as stupid but enjoys some other form of entertainment they are implying that their choice of entertainment enjoys a status professional wrestling lacks and that they, by virtue of their taste, are better. That’s snobbery (i.e. elitism).
Wrestling is essentially an artistic celebration of machismo.
A case could be made that it is inherently and ontologically stupid for that reason alone – but not without tarring many other art forms (e.g., action movies) with the same brush.
not just action films, all entertainment that does not serve some purpose other than to entertain, unless of course you’re operating under a definition of “stupid” I am not familiar with, in which case, please share.
I was (hypothetically) operating under the assumption that celebration of machismo is ipso facto stupid. That would not apply to all forms of pure entertainment, only the macho forms.
No, you clearly misunderstood Brainglutton. “Wrestling is essentially an artistic celebration of machismo.” That’s the reason he meant by “for that reason alone”
Snobbery and elitism implies a background of money, education, or posterity. The people who chimed in to taunt others about their personal taste clearly lack the pedigree required to earn those charges. In my experience those with such a lineage have far better manners than to denigrate others’ preferences and hobbies. Well mannered people know that it is possible to express a dissenting opinion without disparaging others. Tactless and abrasive seem a better fit.
I’ve known some seriously blue collar people or, in other words, rednecks, who loved wrestling and Bruce Willis movies and disdained theater, opera, ballet, symphonies and other “high brow” entertainment as “fucking gay” and “for fags and fat bitches.”
While I recognize there is certain amount of superiority to such opinions, I would classify it as ignorance. After all, I managed to convince some of those guys that Shakespeare had lots of blood, gore and bad language. Some of those rednecks can (and do!) quote Macbeth every once in a while.
Well, sure, but that’s a classic case of the strong vs. weak insult. Members of a group viewed as historically “strong” (whites, males, rich people, etc.) are not socially permitted to insult a “weak” group, but the reverse is perfectly permissible, even when the relative strengths of the two groups approach parity. So, for example, “misogynist” is a powerful charge, while “misandrist” doesn’t get the same mileage.
I fear that Nigel, Lord Tuffington, has absconded with it, and shall not return it without a vigorous round of fisticuffs. But fear not! Should the struggle go against you, I shall be lurking in the wings with a collapsible chair to even the odds! Now let’s go show that bugger what for, eh?
M-W doesn’t give a definition for elitist, but the 3rd definition works well enough. Elitists do occasionally look down their noses at the hoi polloi, rolling their eyes at the low-brow antics they see in popular culture. There are many times the ‘elitist’ label is accurately applied here on the boards. You can’t call the naysayers and thread-shitters ‘pretentious snobs’ everytime they post their righteous indignation, that would get boring after a while.
We had a thing in England when I was a kid called inverted snobbery,when the class system over here was a real thing the worst perpetrators were the working class of which I was and am a member .
If you tried very hard in your education you were being “big headed”,“showing off” or "getting above yourself ",if you had any intelligence at all you were supposed to hide it or you had a very good chance of getting into a fist fight (Not having firearms available generally in civilian life a breach of good manners or custom would always result in a physical fight.
The British are not obsessed with the weather ,it is a subject where you can acknowledge someone elses presence ,talk to them and show due respect without offending them if your opinion is different to theirs .
We are great believers in good manners and politeness and if you deliberately offend someone there is quite a good chance of physical violence even with those of mature years,unfortunately many of our "young People "having been pandered to all of their maturing lives have no such constraints .
Myself I am an elitest because I think anyone who watches sit coms ,soaps or big brother are sad cunts plus I’m incredibly good looking and I dont really need you ugly cunts approval .
(I might be lying)
One sees a lot of reverse snobbery in Buffalo – the romanticization the region’s blue collar heritage and culture, and a perceived “honesty”, “authenticity” and sense of being “more real” than other cities – even among the upper middle class. Not too long ago, I saw a post on a local history listserv from someone who seemed to mourn the loss of the old Chippewa Street - hookers, drug dealers, boarded up stores, seedy old-man bars, and adult book stores. The new Chippewa was too clean and sanitized for them, and besides, it appeals to Abercrombie-wearing college students and young adults now instead of more authentic, honest and real bums and criminals. They preferred a dangerous, decaying red light district to a revitalizing, increasingly vibrant mixed use neighborhood. From the post:
Because something is new, it’s “corporate”, and thus bad. Shouldn’t we be celebrating the fact that this generation of young people are rediscovering the city, and not retreating even further into exurbia?
Some days I think many Buffalonians WANT the decline and decay and grit, just because that environment reinforces their fierce reverse snobbery, and maybe a sense that they’re tough, rugged urbanites and not sissified yuppies. They remind me of the people who love Detroit because of the urban decay, not in spite of it; the old-school New Yorkers that curse Giuliani for cleaning up the city, preferring graffiti-covered subway trains beset by deferred maintenance to the cleaner, safer and more reliable system of today; or the cult of White Castle fans in Chicago who love it because the cashiers are rude, the burgers taste foul, and they have the same effect on one’s digestive system as a packet of Ex-Lax washed down with a fourty of Genny Cream Ale and a shot of brake fluid.
