Last night my wife (who is a nurse) was speaking with a surgen who just returned from Baghdad from a medical unit of some sort.
She (the surgen) said the number of US dead is being under reported. I guess her words were “There are more Americans dead then people are being told,… a LOT more… like Vietnam more.”
Consider that each day the American Army announces the names of the soldiers killed. That is to say Central Command does not just say “three people were killed.” They say “Larry, Moe and Curly Joe were killed.”
If your son/father/husband came home in a body bag it would be reasonable to ask why his death was never announced.
(If on the other hand only a number of dead were announced each day, it would be reasonable for six families to assume their loved one was one of the three who died that day.)
Strangely, the rumor that there are many more deaths than reported has great currency here. The idea is that “Three Americans” died, but that does not include a half-dozen non-American citizens who also died as American soldiers.
This also would not seem to pass the Test of Resonablness.
Could such a thing be happening? Sure, but then again the size and complexity of such a conspiracy would be remarkable.
Well there are 58,219 names listed on the Wall as killed during the Viet Nam War. I’d have to wager with the thousands in the media in Iraq right now that this type of death toll would leak out. A family member of mine returned from Iraq a few months ago and from what I gathered it was pretty much a slaughter with no casualties on his end (other than 1 lost leg and 1 shooting).
More than 2,000 American soldiers died in combat in May 1968, the highest monthly loss of the Vietnam War.
I seem to recall a Life Magazine cover story where they listed all the American soldiers killed in just one week. A firegure of 250-300 comes to mind. (No cite.)
If the government is covering up a high body count in Iraq, they should be equally adept at finding WMDs there as well.
I have heard that a number of soldiers have died from what is allegedly pneumonia. The suggestion was that the deaths were really the result of chemical exposure from some modern-day Agent Orange. But even if it’s true, we’re talking about a few dozen deaths, not thousands.
Lunaville keeps a running total. As of 10/3/03, there are 317 Americans, 51 British, 1 Spanish, 1 Danish, and 1 Ukrainian military personnel dead in Iraq operations. American wounded (other nations not listed) add up to 1710 since 3/20/03.
Comparisons to Vietnam are quantitative, but perhaps not qualitative.
Well, when I was younger and the Viet-nam war was going on, I knew several freinds who “didn’t come back” and eveyone knew at least one family who had a KIA.
Although I have several freinds & club members who have “gone over” (and note, some are National Guard & Reservists who are very unhappy about being kept on duty for extended periods*), none has even been wounded, although one did come down very sick with pneumonia, and was invalided home.
Thus, if there WAS “Viet Nam level deaths” then I’d expect to know someone who was killed- or at least know a family with a KIA. My club has something like 2500 members in the NoCal area, and about 800 Yahoogroup subscribers, and no one has reported any KIA in anyones family, nor have I heard about any in other branches. Although I admit that we generally only get “family” news from Oregon & SoCal, we do hear about just about every death, event those from natural causes (we have about 10000 members nationwide), and so far no KIA’s.
I have many cousins in the Service, and some “over there”. No casualties at all from that source either.
Note that with modern communications, freinds, family & loved ones are almost in daily communication through emails & calls. So unless the DoD is not only hiding KIA’s but also faking emails & calls, it seems VERY unlikely.
Oh, look, here is Master Occam, and his razor! What’s that you say Master Occam?
on that, there is a list of “angels”, companies that are paying their employee Reservists & Guardsmen the difference in pay while they are “over there”. Even if you are against the “war” - these companies are real Heroes too. Let’s all patronize them!
According to an article in the Guardian a few weeks ago, what is being ‘covered up’ is the very high number of non-fatal casualties and the seriousness of these events. The article said that when the number of dead is announced, no count is given for those injured or seriously injured. IIRC the unofficial count for injured shipped home was well up into the low-mid-thousands- the source being field hospitals, German US hospitals and US-based facilities. The reporter also said that a large proportion of these injuries are potentially life-defing- permananet and disabling. The reporter said that trying to get official figures led to serious hostility from the press minders with the US forces.
Pjen: so again- why don’t I- or anyone I know- personally know any of these? Do YOU personally know anyone who had been disabled or killed? Do you know anyone that has family that has been disabled or killed?
The ONLY conspiracy theory that has any possibilty based upon my personal knowledge is Diceman’s- (I know of a guy that was invalided home with pneumonia, but he’s OK now), in that I GUESS it is possible that some odd chemical or something is causing casualties that to a layman can be diagnosed as pneumonia. I doubt it, but there is “Gulf War Syndrome”, so I will leave my mind open on that.
I don’t know if that’s really proof it isn’t going on. I personaly don’t know anyone over there, I have no family there and I don’t know anyone with family over there.