Don’t you guys find awfully strange that after almost a week and a half of war not one American Soldier has been killed by an Iraqi “fairly” meaning being shot or having a grenade thrown at them. The only thing I heard seems to be about this suicide bomber that killed 4 people. All the other people seem to have died crashing their helicopters and planes. Seems as though our guys are bulletproof but they seem to have problems flying planes. Could it be possible that our government is lying to us and told us they had a malfunction in their plane but maybe were actually gunned down? (OMG THE GOVERNMENT LYING TO US!!!) Sounds like propaganda to me. Either our plane technicians suck, our Air Force and Marines can’t keep their plane from crashing or the Iraqis happen to have gunned down a couple of our planes but the government lied about it. (SOMETHING OUR GOVERNMENT COULDN’T POSSIBLY DO DURING A WAR ESPECIALLY AFTER VIETNAM). What do you guys think? And please don’t give me that I’m unamerican crap.
Maybe they’ll claim that Iraqi’s don’t have real guns at all; they just throw rocks like Palestinians do and hope for the best. 
What the hell are you talking about?
Well, it’s been a long, hard, cruel winter in Buffalo. Not surprising that one might start to crack.
And so ends yet another Great Debate.
As for the crashes, it’s all about the sand…
All the filters and prevent maintenance cannot remove all the sand from all of the machinery and jet intakes of our vehicles.
Sandstorms is just as much as an enemy as the Iraqi military is.
The point is Gangster Octopus that all I hear about on the news is that all the planes seem to crash and there is very little on people that are killed in combat, I don’t know maybe I’m watching the wrong TV Station, FOX news tends to be a little bit bias. And, Jackmannii The winter this year wasn’t anywhere near as bad as it was two years ago.
Flying a military aircraft isn’t a low-risk activity, even when people aren’t shooting at you. Factor in the dodging of AAA, the nerves of entering combat, the unfamiliar environment, and the rumored Catch-22-level lack of support for troops, and the deaths through accidents are as unsurprising as they are tragic.
(By rumors, I’m talking about a reservist whose wife is haunting flea markets looking for an M-16 cleaning kit, since her husband wasn’t assigned one when he was assigned his M-16. What the hell?)
Daniel
Note the detail of the descriptions of friendly fire / accident kills as opposed to the relative lack thereof for the enemy fire casualties.
I’d say it suggests an attempt to add credibility to these claims, and diverts attention from the relative proportion of the sizes of those two groups.
But then again, that opinion is probably dependent on a belief that “our guys” too partakes in the manufacture of military propaganda. And that is of course a damn lie!
(The above in response to the link provided by Gangster Octopus)
Hey!! How bout that CNN! Why it does actually show news!
Sand and pitchforks tend to add a lot of wear and tear to helicopters in the field.
More likely that you are only hearing the news you want to hear. They don’t seem to have a problem reporting the bad news when it happens.
The only thing I think they are lieing about is that the original plan has gone to shit. But that’s ok because we seem to be adapting and overcoming. Actually, I don’t think they are even lieing. I think the press is just asking a lot of really stupid questions.
Not unamerican. Just uninformed.
What the hell is the OP talking about? Ambushes are a perfectly valid military tactic and the Americans have taken a few hits along those lines.
As for accidental deaths, you can’t have that many people with that many guns moving that fast across that harsh an environment without having accidents.
Didja think giggling about conspiracies would suck us in that easily? Poppycock.
I don’t think you’re unAmerican, simply because I’ve seen lots of Americans believing all kinds of crazy-ass bullshit. I’ve come to expect it from them.
Well Bryan Ekers, The point is I know there have been ambushes I just seem to hear about nothing but these accidents on all American news channels including CNN and MSNBC. The only conspiracy I was talking about was perhaps the government was lying to us about the accidents and not telling us that the planes were perhaps shot down. I also added a little sense of humor, Poppycock. If you think what I believe in is crazy-ass bullshit you haven’t met too many Americans up there in Montreal. And to Mssmith537, The new reports to you what you want to hear and thats that Americans are winning. And BTW they seem to have a large problem reporting bad news when it happens and when it does they make it look like it was Iraq’s fault no matter what. I haven’t heard Fox News nor MSNBC have guys like Abrams say that Americans are having problems in Iraq straight out. They always seem to twist their words around to make it look as though it’s not as big a problem.
…so? CNN reports American and British deaths, and most of the deaths so far have been accidental. If you believe CNN and MSNBC are lying to you… then don’t watch them. I’ve seen independent reporting on BBC World News as well as the Canadian news services confirming that accidental deaths have occured. I don’t see any reason to think I’m being lied to.
Why would the government lie about such things? I mean, putting aside all the conspiracy crap that presupposes the government lies about everything, what motive do they have to lie about this in particular? Americans have died and are going to continue dying in this operation. Would admitting a combat death be so shocking? If so, you really must not think much of your fellow Americans if you’re assuming they’re that fragile. And why would CNN and MSNBC (and other news agencies with similar reports) play along?
Even as I write this, CNN is talking about the accidental slaughter by Americans of seven Iraqi women and children. I don’t see how that fits ito your little theory that we’re only being told things that make the Americans look god the and Iraqis look bad.
I’ve met plenty of Americans and I have lots of American cousins and I’ve watched a lot of American TV and movies (JFK was on just yesterday). American capacity for paranoia is downright impressive, though generally I think they’re an okay bunch.
Anyhoo, now that you’ve blown their secret, I’m sure the CNN goons will soon be paying you a visit to “convince” you to keep quiet.
I try to get all the facts from as many sources as I can and then make my own determination. I watch enough History Channel to recognize that isolated cities under seige do not last against a determined and supperior opponent.
I also do not second guess the entire operation every time a soldier is killed or a helicopter crashes. That seems to be the latest media trend. In fact, the military and Bush have said “this may be a long war” and “it will end when it ends”. The stupid reporters seem to be the ones who were surprised that the Iraqis didn’t fold right off the bat. It’s like they thought they would get to spend a week racing through the desert in the back of a Bradley and are now shocked that they have to endure actual firefights and mortar attacks.
And to answer your OP on what we don’t consider “fair”:
-Disgusing as civilians
-Firing on your own civilians
-Faking a surrender
-Using human shields
-Forcing soldiers to fight at gunpoint or by threatening their families
All these tactics are designed to inflict harm on the Iraqi people. Would you fight for a regime that valued protecting itself at the expense of it’s own people?
I have been watching many TV stations but the funny part is that after a week and a half there seems to be mainly reports on accidents and only on a couple ambushes. I perosnally don’t care how advanced our army is but if you’re fighting guys so devoted to their country you’re going to have planes shot down and the reason they don’t say it is to keep patriotism high and have as much propaganda as possible. It seems as though no one wants to believe the Americans are doing anything wrong. And we ARE being told things that make the Americans look good and the Iraqis look bad. Can you honestly tell me you heard one thing on FOX news or MSNBC that sounded unpatriotic? This includes CNN, the propaganda is through the roof and that’s really what this thread is about, not conspiricies. I think they’re bull for the most part I just never believe exactly what the government tell me, and people should have learned that by know throughout history. This isn’t about my paranoia if you think that’s what it’s about, I’m not that stupid. Becuase right now all I think this is about is keeping Bush’s popularity rating up for the next election. And all this partriotism and Propaganda seems to be working.
And to msmith537,
The Iraqis are in code red mode right now, If you think the Iraqis should fight this war fairly then you’re out of your mind, this war would be over already. They’re not stupid, they realize they have no choice unless they commit some war crimes. If you think it’s unfair try being in their situation, they rather die fighting then surrender. Considering the size of the armies and the weapons americans have, do you honestly think they stand a chance? Right now they have no choice and don’t expect them to surrender.
So take it with a bucket of salt, change the channel, and vote for the Green Party in 2004.
But they do tell us when a helicopter gets shot down.
They are telling us when 20 of them return to base all shot up
They tell us when they crash into each other.
They tell us when our soldiers get ambushed
They tell us when our soldiers kill civilians
It’s not like I don’t think that there’s a whole lot of stuff that we don’t know about. But it’s not as though they only report on the good news.
And no…I don’t expect them to fight “fair”. I 'm sure they think it’s unfair that we bomb them from the air and have tanks that they can’t even touch.
As for faking a surrender, the Iraqis didn’t exactly invent this.
Apologies for a mild hijack, but this man’s life was fascinating.
“American capacity for paranoia is downright impressive, though generally I think they’re an okay bunch.”
I know what you really mean by saying this. You’re not fooling anyone, buster. :mad:
I’ve said too much. Smithers, use the amnesia ray.