I’m not complaining that shooting an animal is creul. I think it’s better to live in the wild and be shot than to spend life on a farm and be slaughtered.
But my question is still why do people enjoy hunting? What is the attraction?
I just can’t imagine hunting being anything for me except for a sad necessity.
For most people, it isn’t necessary. So what pleasure does it give?
I don’t know where you get your info from but I personally toured a slaughterhouse in Iowa about 15 years ago*. I saw the cattle being killed…up close (about ten feet away). A man with something I can only describe as a pneumatic hammer (sort of like a jackhammer but with a blunt end) popped the cow in the head with the working end. As you might imagine the hammer is driven with great force. My guide pointed out a small hole in the half-dollar sized hammer part. He said that hole ejected a squirt of pressurized air. Essentially the hammer punches a hole in the cow’s skull and the air jet scrambles the brain. With no brain the cow can’t feel pain and is dead instantly. The process from when the guy pulls the trigger on the hammer to dead cow is easily less than a second. If you want to be cynical about htis and assume the slaughterhouse couldn’t care less about causing pain this still makes perfect economic sense. It is efficient and fast which ultimately translates to more moeny for them. Additionally, letting a live but dying cow through probably doesn’t make the employees thrilled so again absolutely dead cow makes much more sense for them.
I’ll grant this was 15 years ago and only one example of a slaughterhouse but I can see no reason why this would change or why other slaughterhouses would do it differently.
[sub]*I went to the slaughterhouse to help a friend on a school project of his while in college. No one else would go with him but I figured if I’m eating meat from places like this I should at least visit one once and I am ultimately glad I did. While not a pretty place it wasn’t as bad as I thought. I was also happy to find, as I mentioned above, that EVERY part of the cow is used…hooves, bones…you name it. The only part of the plant they would not let us in is the room where they process the blood saying it was a bit too much for visitors to handle which made me wonder if they were covering something awful up. They had however pointed it out to us and when leaving the plant my friend and I walked through a stream of air being vented by fans from that room. My friend puked instantly and it is a smell I will never forget. Not bad as such but not pleasant either (although in the full rather undiluted air stream coming from the fans it was a lot to cope with). To this day I recognize the smell and know I’m near a slaughterhouse when I detect it.[/sub]
I’m really not interested in why it gives pleasure to someone to kill an animal. All I need to know is what’s been pointed out above: that hunters are the reason why large areas are conserved, and that they pay for this privilege. I have a number of friends who are hunters, and listening to them talk about it almost made me want to go out there with a rifle or a bow. More than likely, though, I’d just shoot myself in the foot. Oh well.
Obviously, having a large group of people willing to pay to preserve the wild places is a good thing. I see no reason to bash them for doing what humans have been doing since forever.
BTW, Native Americans in the East at least, used to manage the forest so that it maximized the number of deer for them to kill, by thinning the forests so as to allow bushes to grow in the understory. I don’t know if this book is still in print, but “Changes in the Land” describes this.
As a sport hunter, I’ll try to address some of the issues brought forth in the OP.
Suffering. I would suggest most any animal I kill through hunting suffers less than livestock which are slaughtered. First off, they have the benefit of an open range kind of life. Secondly, there is no lengthy and fearful slaughter process. A steer is transported to a slaughterhouse which is a frightening experience, and it spends its last moments crowded and forced through a runway, where it can smell the death and distress of its fellows. They are literally terrified. Thirdly, very rarely has any animal I’ve shot suffered. Most but sadly not all hunters are very responsible and use excellent equiptment. A .30-06 slug into the chest cavity puts an instantaneous end to a buck’s life. Not all shots are perfect, but then again neither are all slaughterhouses, but I think it’s pretty safe to say that animals reaped in the wild tend to suffer as little or as much as an animal does in the slaughterhouse.
Fun. This is a pretty common misconception among nonhunters. While I’m sure there is a minority of hunters who hunt out of bloodlust, this is something of a rarity. I have yet to meet one.
I hunt for the pleasure of the process and for what the process gives to me. Yes, the end result is to kill an animal. The question though is why am I doing this when I could be engaged in some peaceful or pastoral activity that didn’t involve bloodshed but still gave me all the positive benefits of hunting?
For me, the answer is simple. I hunt to reaffirm my understanding of my place in the world. My very existance necessarily causes suffering and pain. I exist by taking things. We all do. My hunting is satisfying, because it acknowledges this.
I think some of us go through life avoiding or unaware or purposefully blind to the suffering and death our very existance causes, and I see that as a bad thing.
When my dog needed to be put to sleep last year, I took him to the vet and held him, and patted him on his head, and told him how good he was, and looked into his eyes as he was killed, as I had his life taken from him.
I would have much preferred to simply have had it done, without my having to be involved, but I owed it to my dog, and myself to be there. To ensure that it was done properly. Most of all it was just important that I was there. Important in a way that I really can’t explain, but was very real nonetheless.
Hunting is different, but also the same. I think it’s important to be involved with your life, to clean your house, wash your car, change your own oil, and handle the details of your own life once in a while.
Hunting is reminding yourself about the details of your life. What it means, what’s involved. What it costs. It’s doing for yourself.
There’s all the outdoorsy fun stuff of hunting. There’s the application of skill, supporting the environment, getting food, drinking beer at night. All that stuff.
But hunting is also about suffering and death. It’s taught me something that I think most nonhunters don’t understand.
It all ends this way. Nobody and nothing here gets out alive. Who is suffering more? A deer I shoot that goes from healthy deer to dead deer in 5 bloody seconds, or my grandmother with were broken and brittle bones, hardly able to walk, hardly able to breathe , who dies a little more, by inches each and every day, and has been for years? She has tried to kill herself the only way she has left. She holds her breathe.
Of course when she passes out, she starts to breathe again, but you have to admire the effort, don’t you?
In a compassionate and merciful society she would be dead.
Hunting reminds me that dying, death, and suffering is a part of life. These are not necessarily bad things. They just are.
I hope to heaven I get as good a death as a deer I shoot, or my dog. Suffering and death are not bad things. They are our natural ending, the natural ending of all things.
They are bad when that last act is drawn out for years, when it is not allowed to close gracefully and naturally.
Suffering and death are coming for you. Aren’t you curious about what they are like? Aren’t you curious about what your existence costs? I want to see. I want to remind myself firsthand. I don’t want to hide from it. I owe it to the world I use, and the animals that die in my behalf to see it firsthand, to accept the responsiblity.
For me, going out and hunting is almost like saying “Thank you” to the world. That’s how it feels. It feels like I am doing a very good thing for myself, and for the would I’m in.
Strangely, I really haven’t hunted much in the last couple of years since my daughter was born.
We do other things, but I suspect hunting will come back into it at some point, or maybe not.
You see, my daughter doesn’t understand death. She doesn’t understand suffering. She doesn’t understand her place in the world or what is in store for her.
Occasionally there are ants in the house, or flies, and my daughter stamps them without thought, or while laughing. She’s watched me spray a wasp’s nest and told she was glad I killed them.
She doesn’t connect suffering and death with herself. With her own life. She doesn’t realize that pain exists for those things as it exists for her. She doesn’t connect the death of those things with the death that she herself must face or of those that she loves.
So, I try to show her in the best way I can. I show her an ant she’s crushed, one that’s still writhing and broken, and I tell her the ant is hurting, that it hurts like when she feel and cut her lip. The ant is scared and hurt. She tells me she didn’t mean to hurt it or make it sad.
It’s a tough concept for a little kid, but I think I’ve gotten through. We can’t have ants in the house. We can’t have wasp nests by the door. So, we kill them. But, it’s not fun, and we are aware of what our lives cost in terms of suffering. So, when we kill them, we kill them all the way. We don’t leave them broken.
We do what we have to do with respect and knowledge of what we are doing.
It is natural and right that we protect ourselves, that we kill the wasp’s nest by the door. It would be stupid not to. It is our place to wear clothes, and eat.
Most importantly though, it is our place to do these things for ourselves once in a while. How else can we know what it means and be thankful?
It gives certain people the satisfaction of pretending they are a homocidal maniac… without having to go to jail.
So it’s the size of the cage, eh? To me it seems that in both cases the outcome is the same; a person with a deadly weapon, uses it to kill a defenseless innocent animal. i must say for the record, how insane.
[Xtian hat]
i believe that zero pain and suffering is the call of the day. Xtians are supposed to espouse various flavors of brotherly love, not point guns at harmless caged animals. Even if one is not a Xtian, i think it is an extremely rare case where children are raised being taught to mercilessly torture amd murder other beings, in this case other animals. Plus you could never know how much pain and suffering an animal is actually enduring, unless you yourself endured a fairy equal amount of said unnecessary torture.
[/Xtian hat]
i sure can’t.
Thanks Scylla for a great post. First and foremost that it didn’t take an adversarial position with the OP (essentially me) and sought to explain something that I was asking for. I did not set out to say “all hunting is bad”. I set out by asking why hunting is acceptable because I forgot the discussions I once had that allowed me to accept hunting even if I personally decided I didn’t want to do it. Your post goes a long way towards that goal as till now the adversarial posts were entrenching me furhter in the ‘hunting is bad’ mode of thought.
I admit I will have to chew on your rather philosophic and somewhat Zen-like approach to hunting. If you read my post just before yours I had a somewhat similar reason for visiting the slaughterhouse (in that I felt I needed to know what my exitence in this respect [eating] was extracting from the world). Granted it was simpler and easier and not kept current as your hunting is but there for what little it is worth (which is still more than I would guess the majority of non-hunting US citizens do).
I will say I would be surprised if other hunters had as profound reasoning as you do although in fairness they may not have thought about it to that extent or in those terms and upon hearing may agree (it will be interesting to see other hunters on this board take on your philosophy).
As to being with your dog till the end I couldn’t agree with you more. If you search this board you can dig up many posts of mine attesting to my love of dogs. I could NEVER drop my dog off to be euthanized without my being there with her. She more than deserves that committment from me and I wouldn’t think of doing anything else. My parents euthanized our dog while I was in college without telling me because finals were occurring that week. I was FURIOUS with them and to this day haven’t forgiven it although it is admittedly an old cross to bear and has lightened over the years. Indeed while growing up I wanted to be a vet till we had our first dog put down and decided I couldn’t kill dogs so I couldn’t be a vet (I was too young then to realize that at that point you are doing the dog a favor [despite being told as much] but the sour taste for being a vet never left me).
dragonfly98:
Are you a vegan in the true sense of the word (i.e. you avoid use of ALL products in your life that come form animals including such things as leather, milk and eggs)?
If not your post makes zero sense.
If you are your post makes more sense but is still rather extremist and difficult to defend.
FTR I do not believe my posts make me a moral coward although I started this thread knowing that it may perhaps be shown I was a hypocrite. I don’t think I am (as of yet) but it will be interesting to see if you are willing to continue and defend your assertions. I even look forward to it.
Scylla,
I also appreciate your post. It’s what I’ve always wondered and never gotten a good answer for. You gave me a good answer.
I wonder if most hunters have the same reason as you.
This summer my husband took my yound children (ages 3 and 5) fishing in a stocked pond for the first time. They had a great time fishing, but didn’t want to see the fish being killed for us to eat. He told them they had to watch or we would return the fish to the water. He wanted them to really understand what it means to have a fish dinner. Yes, fishing is fun, and the taste of fish is great, but it comes at a cost.
I guess it’s the same thing you are saying.
As for dragonfly’s post. All I can say is Yikes! What a jerk!
And for every story of someone witnessing a slaughterhouse going as it should, there’s a story of someone witnessing animals still living going through the machines. There have been plenty of cases where inspectors found that the people responsible for killing the animals were not paying all the attention they should have, and resulted in some animals being only maimed by the hammer, not killed (Hence the “bashed in the head” part of my comparison).
The idea that the slaughterhouse employees would feel uneasy around a wounded but not-yet-dead cow could be used just as well for pointing out that a hunter would feel uneasy only wounding an animal. Not very convincing…
The “efficient” factor is the same. Maybe even more biased towards the hunter. One could argue that hunters would have more reason to make sure their target goes down with the first shot than slaughterhouses; they have to track them down if they don’t.
You seem to be comparing the ideal for slaughterhouses to the worst possible result for hunting. That’s all I meant to point out. Both are very short and suffering-free if done properly, but both have room for error. I don’t think the ‘suffering’ aspect is one that can be used adequately against hunting, when it’s no more than for the other method of getting meat…
autz and Whack-A-Mole, my dad goes hunting every year with his brother and nephew and other various relatives, sometimes bringing my nephew (his grandson). Usually pheasant season, sometimes turkey. He sees most of these guys a only few times a year. But the hunting weekend is really important to them. They end up spending the whole weekend together, away from TV and other distractions. It’s serious quality time. Yeah, they could get that from hiking, or camping, as autz suggested, but for whatever reason that doesn’t have the same draw. The thing about hunting season is, all the men in my family know when opening weekend is and they know that’s when they’re going to get together. Every year, it’s a given.
I don’t know if they ever kill much–I know they almost never successfully get a turkey. My dad never cares. It’s about the rituals and the outdoors and all that other stuff that doesn’t ring true to you. It’s not about the kill.
Hunting trips are also one of the few times when I see the young men of my extended family get the undivided attention of their older male relatives for an entire weekend. Of course they could accomplish this in other ways, but hunting trips have been a surefire intergenerational experience for the men of my family for decades.
Not incidentally, I know my Dad and his brothers learned to hunt because it really did put food on the table. My dad’s family had “milk soup” for dinner sometimes. No longer necessary, but that’s how his generation all got started.
Phoenix Dragon:
I think there is much more room for error in hunting than in a slaughterhouse. If the guy wielding the jackhammer can’t manage to hit an immobile cow in the head from above and a foot away and sends the animal alive into the plant that is appalling. At the very least the guy should be fired for incompetence on the spot. This is nowhere near as hard as a hunter’s task in getting a clean kill.
I also never argued that most hunters don’t try for the clean and quick kill. As you rightly point out it makes the hunter’s job easier rather than having to track a wounded animal who knows how far. My point is I don’t think the kills are as routinely clean as is claimed here but I admit I don’t have evidence to back that up. It just seems reasonable that a shot at 200 yards is difficult. Even with a scope unknown variables can affect the shot…unanticipated movement by the animal, wind, scope isn’t sighted perfectly, etc…
CrankyAsAnOldMan:
I do remember friends I spoke to in the past relating the bonding aspect of hunting and hunting as a family tradition. Certainly there is something to that but I am still not convinced hunting must be a part of it and not just camping. I know several families that have male get-togethers the same time every year where the men in the extended family congregate but except for one family none of the rest hunt.
I also realize that it really wasn’t all so long ago that hunting was a necessity and not a sport in this country. My grandma who died four years ago was born in 1898. Before cars, before electricity, etc. She lived up in Wisconsin and the general store was 20 miles away from where she grew-up. Getting there was an effort and done only every three months. Hunting was absolutely necessary for her family. I doubt you could claim hunting was unnecessary in order to survive for the majority of the US till well into the 20th century. That, however, doesn’t mean that the vast majority of hunters of today do not have the option to go to a local grocer easily. Different times.
As to turkey hunting my boss does this. When he first told me I scoffed that that must be about as hard as shooting fish in a barrel. I then got that notion re-worked by him as apparently wild turkeys, as ungainly and flightless as they are, are exceedingly perceptive animals and as such usually have no problem staying away from the hunter. Assuming that is true (and I suspect it is) I guess it isn’t so surprising your relatives aren’t too successful in the turkey hunt.
Turkeys actually fly quite well for a bird their size. While the distance in which they fly is usually limited, they can get up and moving fast.
I think you might change your mind a bit about the ‘sport’ hunting I do if you actually were to go hunting with me.
It’s rather hard to explain that even at 100 or 200 yards, if I don’t have a shot that’s immediate-kill, I’d never pull the trigger.
Many days of hunting, I go home empty handed because no such shot existed despite the fact that I was out there in the cold, the snow, the wind, the rain, the woods from before it gets light out until after it’s dark.
It’s very hard to walk into the woods while it’s still dark in the morning, wait till light, load your rifle, stand behind a tree being still and not making noise all day until it’s dusk, unload your gun, and then walk back out of the woods. It’s hard, but I love it. I feel like the part of nature that I am out there.
It used to be that the tribal peoples would thank the animal that gave its life to feed them, and damned if I don’t feel thankful to the noble adversary, the deer, that dies so I can eat it. I don’t see the animals as defenseless, because they’re not. They have excellent hearing, sight, and sense of smell. They’re a prey animal, and they’re damn good at hiding from and getting away from predators. They are my worthy adversary in a very ancient game, and those that lose have just as much of my respect as those who win.
Well, let us say that you did shoot 2 elk on a trip. The chances of bagging them both on the same trip out- the same day- is about nil. (might even be illegal). Thus, you have some 400 lbs of elk to pack out- that’s usually with 2>4 hunters, a guide, and often an ATv, and if not a SUV withing a short walk.
Well, let us say that you did shoot 2 elk on a trip. The chances of bagging them both on the same trip out- the same day- is about nil. (might even be illegal). Thus, you have some 400 lbs of elk to pack out- that’s usually with 2>4 hunters, a guide, and often an ATV, and if not- a SUV within a short walk. Soldiers carry 80# on 50 mile hikes- 100# for a few miles is not a big deal.
I am sure that real “caged hunts” (as opposed to those where the animal is on a rather large preserve) have happened. However the “huge number of links” mean nothing. Look how many hits you can get on the “bambi hunts” in nevada, where supposedly some dude would “hunt” nude women with a paintball gun. And note- there is no such program, no one really offers it (although they did make a video for sale). Caged hunts are such a “non-problem” that if that’s the Op, we can all post “we agree” and go home. Sure- some areas made them illegal- but thay makes lots of things illegal that weren’t really a problem, but there was a lot of hype about.
What difference does that make whether or not i have an opinion about sport hunting? Seems to me you don’t have a handle on the direction this supposed debate is going. Stop the shenanigans if you would be so kind.
Pure nonsense. If you really believe this horsesh*te then please support this rather opaque and nonsensical assertion.
Makes more sense? More sense than what? Once again if you really believe this please support this rather opaque and nonsensical assertion.
Hypocrite, moral coward whatever. You aren’t even taking sport hunters to task, just throwing buzzwords around.Why did you even start this thread? You are nothing more than a pretended apologist for those that are omnivores/meat eaters and you are using the suffering of poor defenseless creatures to justify the wholesale slaughter of animals for human consumption.
autz asked:
For most people, it isn’t necessary. So what pleasure does it give?
i answered:
It gives certain people the satisfaction of pretending they are a homocidal maniac… without having to go to jail.
Opinion.
You state:
*I have less of a problem if a sport hunter uses the animal they kill for food than if they just want a trophy. The ‘hunters’ that kill caged exotic animals I have absolutely zero tolerance for. *
i replied:
So it’s the size of the cage, eh? To me it seems that in both cases the outcome is the same; a person with a deadly weapon, uses it to kill a defenseless innocent animal. i must say for the record, how insane.
Once again i stated an opinion.
You stated:
i replied:
i believe that zero pain and suffering is the call of the day. Xtians are supposed to espouse various flavors of brotherly love, not point guns at harmless caged animals. Even if one is not a Xtian, i think it is an extremely rare case where children are raised being taught to mercilessly torture amd murder other beings, in this case other animals. Plus you could never know how much pain and suffering an animal is actually enduring, unless you yourself endured a fairy equal amount of said unnecessary torture.
i have once again stated my opinion on this matter, with a little pseudo-rellgious nonsense thrown in for good measure. :rolleyes:
You asked:
*Can anyone support sport hunting? *
i replied:
i sure can’t.
Here i answered your query.
Evidently stating an opinion is heartily welcomed on this thread with open arms, unless of course you happen to be me; because in that case my opinions don’t really count unless i happen to be a veg*n, and if so then my opinions do count, but just a little, however they still make very little sense.
HUH??
Obviously you are here only to justify the consumption of dead animals and the rigorous torture and slaughter of these creatures that is necessary. This isn’t a debate of any sorts, this is a Stroke Festival.
Obviously i think that sport/trophy hunting is wrong and i have stated as much, apparently much to your consternation. FTR i also think that the ritualistic, horrific and profit motivated slaughter of millions defenseless creatures every day is wrong, and immoral.
i think that sport hunting in general is wrong, just as i believe that putting guns and other deadly weapons in mens’ hands and then marching them off to war is wrong.
autz: i find your obnoxious and/or uncourageous and sheepish baiting/remark not even worthy of a response. But i will suggest if you really want to see a bona fide jerk/jerkette, in the flesh, you only have to look in the mirror. :smack:
See what I mean about reminding yourself about your place in the world?
Whack:
I think a lot of hunters feel the way I do, even if they don’t intellectualize. They may describe it as getting back to basics, or just say it feels good.
Of course there are those obnoxious competitive hunters as well. There’s quite a few of those. Those are the guys looking for trophies or affirmations of their own power, control or manhood.
dragonfly98
There are many vegans on this board. There are many jerks on this board. Most of the former group are not members of the latter group.
You appear to be the exception.
Most vegans on this board are very erudite and eloquent.
You appear to be the exception.
To anyone who accused me (or thought of me) as a card carrying member of PETA in this thread should read dragonfly98’s posts and tell me if they still think I make that grade.
Sorry for the very long post. I tend to make more sense when I get all my thoughts out at once. 
Whack-a-Mole said:
"If it is the outdoors that is the attraction why kill something?
If it is the thrill of the hunt why do you have to kill something? You can still stalk the animal but at the end of it why not take a photo?"
I agree Whack-a-Mole. I myself am a birdwatcher and wildlife photographer, and I also shoot animals… with a CAMERA!! I do enjoy the “stalking” aspect of it, I’ll admit that. How close can I get to this animal before it notices? If it does notice, how long before it runs/flies away? Will it let me take more than 1 photo? It is very exciting. But in the end, I have my photo, and the animal and I both go our separate ways. No one has to die for me to have my fun.
If “sport hunters” really did enjoy the hunt itself, the stalking, the great outdoors, etc, then why do they KILL? They must like the feeling of power they get from ending a living thing’s life, or else they wouldn’t do it. They LIKE the death and the blood.
I do not enjoy killing, therefore I don’t kill. I do enjoy following wild creatures in their native habitat, so I do do that. Hunters DO enjoy killing, therefore they do it. They can claim it’s all about nature, hiking, etc, but if it was, then all they need is some binoculars or a camera. They don’t need a gun for that.
Debaser said:
“This basically doesn’t exist. I have known many hunters and have never heard of someone killing an animal and not using the meat. Unless you are talking about pests like coyotes.”
I happen to like coyotes. I haven’t got one on film yet, but I’m trying. 
And I disagree about the hunters always using the meat. I know a good many hunters, and I even tagged along on a hunting trip once. 
NOT FUN. My friend used a hunting gun (I have no idea what kind, sorry) and hit the animal in the flank/hip area. It took off and we had to chase it. We never did find it, and I’m sure it bled to death or died of an infection or something else equally horrible.
And few of the hunters I know use the meat. They are in it for the “trophy”. I also know some raccoon and squirrel hunters, who are only in it for the skin to hang on their walls. Not that there is much meat to eat in that case anyways. And one of my friends has a few stuffed rabbits that he killed himself. He definitely didn’t eat that meat.
Of the hunters I know that DO use the meat, it is hardly enough to justify killing the entire animal. They kill for the fun, and they only eat the meat one or two nights afterwards, in a sort of “celebration” of their kill. It’s not like it’s their entire winter rations or something…
And to whoever said caged hunts were just Whack-a-Mole’s imagination: What rock have you been living under? They DO exist. And the links he provided you are just the tip of the iceberg. The good thing is that even most sport hunters realize the barbaricness (is that a word?) of these “hunts”. Even my often wasteful hunting friends do.
In response to population control: The reason deer, squirrels, etc. are so abundant is because we DECIMATED their natural predators: wolves, birds of prey, etc. The best method of controlling their population would be to reintroduce more natural predators, but the average person is afraid pet Fluffy will fall victim, so it will never happen. Just because we ruined the entire ecosystem, does not give us the right to label them “pests”. They were here first anyways…
pantom said:
“I’m really not interested in why it gives pleasure to someone to kill an animal.”
You may not be interested, but it is a very important question. If a person enjoys taking a living creature’s life, that just happens to be a deer, how much does he/she differ from a sadistic serial killer who enjoys taking human lives? The reasons behind the enjoyment of killing any living being provide a very interesting view into the human psyche, and its most primal urges. It can’t just be ignored.
“All I need to know is what’s been pointed out above: that hunters are the reason why large areas are conserved, and that they pay for this privilege.”
Are you saying that hunters are the only reason large areas are conserved? Because I and my donations to the WWF (World Wildlife Fund), among other organizations, beg to differ…
And just because a group of people provides a service (paying to conserve wild areas) does not make what they do (hunting) morally right. Child molesters still pay their taxes and volunteer on little league teams afterall…
Scylla, your analogy of putting your dog to sleep doesn’t seem to compare to hunting. Though I’m sorry for your loss. I had to put down one of my own dogs (13 years old) earlier this year, so I know how you feel. I assume the dog was put down for its own health? (If not, I truly wonder why…) This is different from a wild deer, because that animal would happily continue to exist without your interference. While putting a pet to sleep is in essence “saving” it, hunting and killing an animal is nothing of the sort. Are you saying that deer is happier in your stomach or on your wall than it would have been alive in the wild where you found it?
“I think some of us go through life avoiding or unaware or purposefully blind to the suffering and death our very existance causes, and I see that as a bad thing.”
I agree. Our lives do cause suffering, or at the very least, inconvenience, to those around us. But is that any reason to add even MORE suffering to the mix? My life causes suffering to others. Ok. Should I go out and kill something because I cause suffering either way? I don’t understand that reasoning.
“But hunting is also about suffering and death. It’s taught me something that I think most nonhunters don’t understand. It all ends this way. Nobody and nothing here gets out alive.”
Deep words. And very true. But I disagree that someone needs to TAKE A LIFE to understand this. I had a brief internship in a hospital when I was in high school, so believe me, I’ve seen human death. I also work part time in a Laboratory and in a Veterinarian’s office while I am going to college, and I have had to put animals to sleep. I have also held sick and injured animals while they took their dying breaths, but I did not CAUSE their deaths. They died of “natural causes” (cancer, old age, etc.) I didn’t have to kill anything to understand how fragile and short life is.
CrankyAsAnOldMan, I care about the non-mammals! I especially love birds. But you’re right, we seem to forget them and end up focusing on the deer more. I guess it’s because they are so large, and furry, and have those sad “doe” eyes of theirs, that they are easier to relate to. We forget that birds can feel pain too.
“Turkeys actually fly quite well for a bird their size. While the distance in which they fly is usually limited, they can get up and moving fast.”
That they can! While bird watching, I have come across a good many turkeys, and I was shocked that they can fly a good 30 feet given almost no “running start” at all. They are a huge bird too. And did you know they can RUN?! I followed one down a path once, and it turned into a full-blown chase. Suffice to say I lost the bird once it veered off the path. LOL
catsix said:
“It’s very hard to walk into the woods while it’s still dark in the morning, wait till light, load your rifle, stand behind a tree being still and not making noise all day until it’s dusk, unload your gun, and then walk back out of the woods. It’s hard, but I love it. I feel like the part of nature that I am out there.”
I see what you’re getting at. I think us birdwatchers and photographers have alot in common with you hunters. You feel like you are a part of nature, especially after you’ve been sitting in the same bush for 3 hours. 
I get the same feeling, but the difference is that I don’t have to kill or even harm anything to do it. I just sit and watch them, and if I’m lucky I’ll get a photo.
I’m also glad that you seem to respect the animals you hunt. I wish all hunters did.
“Those are the guys looking for trophies or affirmations of their own power, control or manhood.”
I know alot of these types of hunters. The people who seem to really respect the animals like I do have been, in my experience, birdwatchers, photographers, and nature enthusiasts, not hunters.
Hmmmm… I think that’s all I have to say… for now…
~Eris~