In this thread here, Devena asked for a line of text to be translated. Some translations were offered and then it was pointed out that a professional should be called in.
I thought that that was not entirely necessary, as I was sure that the specific text or one like it had already been translated and DeVena could use that. I also mentioned that DeVena could explain it to a bilingual person and have that person explain it in his/her language.
From all that I think that this is a reasonable claim:
A person who understands a subject matter can explain it in his/her native language and I’m specifically thinking this can be used for instructions and product descriptions.
I understand there are times when an expert in both the field and the 2 languages should be used (as Omnipresent mentioned, legal documents, for example) and I feel that is correct. It’s the other everyday stuff that I mentioned, that I think doesn’t need a certified translator.
I agree in general. Of course, agreement maketh no debate (as Shakespeare should have said). So here are a few caveats.
A native speaker may, as you mention, be ignorant in the specific field of the text.
A native speaker may have less linguistic profiency than a professional translator. He may show less sensitivity to unwanted submeanings or associations in the text, he may lack vocabulary. Being a native speaker doesn’t make you good in speaking your language, much less good in writing a text in your language.
A native speaker may be too much tied to his specific dialect, social class or other social subgroup. He may overlook specific meanings in other fields, be ignorant of hot-buttons with others. Of course a professional translator may have a similar ignorance, but one hopes his training at least prepared him for some of those pitfalls.
For an example of what I mean with this last point, see the regular debates on this board about: why is calling someone X offensive? (X being queer, broad, oriental and whatnot). If you want to write a text that is neutral for everyone, you could run in problems with some native speakers.
Lastly, with a native speaker you will probably end up with his own personal style. A professional translater will hopefully try to subdue his own style to let the original shine through.
The best professional translators translate only into their native languages, though often exceptions are made for relatively obscure language pairs.
Good translators are also good writers. Proper translation isn’t just a matter of looking up words in a dictionary. In addition to understanding the language, the translator has to transform the text into something in the target language that creates the same “effect” as in the original. Sometimes this requires almost completely re-writing the text to take account of cultural differences. At the very least, it involves re-casting the original into something that will flow for a reader of the target language like it does in the orginal while, of course, preserving the meaning.
However, if your question is, “Can a bilingual person tell me what something means in another language?” then sure, of course they can.
Those are some good points Tusculan. You mentioned
Is there really some sort of training in this? I’m skeptical, to be honest.
I’m not aware of what goes on in translating school but maybe someone could explain how a translator is ceritified. Truth Seeker does that mean a good writer who is bilingual can be a good translator in everyday subjects?
I’m working as an editor now and the text I receive back from the translators contains none of the style or intent of the original. I feel my results, based on my understanding of source language, the ability to look up things on the subject, and speaking with the originator of the text, make an enormously better translation than what these (specific) professionals do.
With respect to training: it depends on what you call ‘professional translator’. Obviously anyone can call themselves a professional translator. With respect to interpreters, these usually have had specific training. Translators who specialize in specific fields mostly have some kind of training too, otherwise they don’t understand the words. But it is true that it is possible that someone calls himself a professional translator who is entirely self-educated, and simply has taken up translating as a profession.
I have a similar experience as you with professional translations, though: if you are proficient in the source and target languages, they seem somewhat clumsy or hamhanded. However, they are still much better than what you may get from a random native speaker. The general level may still be below what you get with a linguistically gifted native speaker. OTOH a good professional translator is really something else.
Then Tusculan I can say we agree totally and this made for a pretty poor Great Debate in terms of the Debate part. Maybe someone will come along with the opinion that only certified translators can do the job? Anyone?
Well, except for the “certified” part (what is a “certified” translator?) you may now have your debate!
From personal experience (native speaker of Hebrew and English), whenever I try to translate something - in either direction - it comes out stilted and unnatural, unlike (I hope) when I am actually THINKING in the same language as I am writing.
So I would definitely say that for serious translating you should use a serious translator (although I’m not sure exactly what that is, either… probably circularly defined as someone who has already done some serious translating in the past)
Wait a moment: I believe this can be turned into a GD.
Consider the concept of the “cult of the professional”. Several people I know have complained that this culture gives undeserved reverence and regard to professionals, often ignoring or disregarding evidence that suggests knowledgeable and informed amateurs can do as well or even better.
For example, stockbrokers are actually fairly bad at predicting which stocks will go up and which will go down in moderate time scales. Professional long-term investors do better, but the average Joe Downs doesn’t do better than chance – in many cases, picking stock randomly gives a greater profit!
Or doctors. If I were concerned about finding subtle signs of possible diseases or conditions in multiple organ systems, or checking for many different kinds of problems in a single system, I’d go to a doctor: they’re good at that.
But for checking for a particular condition, or monitoring an ongoing condition, an educated person can learn enough in a short period to hold informed opinions. I disagree strongly with the idea that doctors should keep the responsibility for patient treatment to themselves, but lots of people will give up all responsibility and knowledge of what’s going on to “the professionals”.
So is there any good reason to resort to “professional” translation? Why are people so quick to suggest it for such a minor matter as these boards?
If I have a patient who speaks no english, I will use a family member to get information, but I prefer to use a professional translating service.
I have found that with professional translators, they generally give me a fairly accurate translation of what’s being said, while family members and friends tend to summarize, condense, omit things they are embarrassed to say, etc.
The pros also translate pretty accurately what I’m saying to the patient. Families and friends don’t always do that.
