Can diplomats be searched?

[alphaboi867]

Chavez is claiming the US illegally detained his foreign minister. Government ministers have diplomatic immunity, right? So is it legal for airport security to search or or retain a diplomatic passport?

[David_Simmons]

Wiki has a long article on diplomatic immunity. and it’s a faily complex subject. I don’t know for sure but I think diplomats are immune to search. This gives them a good opportunity to smuggle stuff and to spy, and apparently a lot of that goes on.

[friedo]

Apparently this jamoke wasn’t even registered with Diplomatic Security and hadn’t informed anyone at the State Department that he was coming. He also bought his one-way ticket in cash 30 minutes before the flight.

Sounds like a doofus rather than a diplomat.

[Gfactor]

Staff report on diplomatic immunity

Staff report on diplomatic bag

And the answer:

@VCDR Art. 29

The person of a diplomatic agent shall be inviolable. He shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. The receiving State shall treat him with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on his person, freedom or dignity.

http://www.un.int/usa/host_dip.htm

[Gfactor]

U.S. State Department spokesman Tom Casey said, “We can confirm that a regrettable incident occurred at John F. Kennedy airport for which the U.S. government has apologized to Foreign Minister Maduro and the government of Venezuela.” He did not elaborate on what prompted the detention.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/24/america/LA_GEN_Venezuela_US.php

So it looks like it happened and the US apologized.

Here is what he is complaining about:

When he explained that he was the Venezuelan foreign minister and showed his diplomatic passport, he says he was threatened, pushed and yelled at by immigration and police officials.

*Id. *

But:

Airlines check passengers names against watch lists and apply certain criteria - such as paying for a ticket with cash - to direct passengers to a more intensive, or “secondary,” screening process.

---

A U.N. diplomat, who spoke condition of anonymity because not authorized to speak publicly, said that Maduro’s passage was delayed because he had showed up late without a ticket, prompting the screening process.

http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/feeds/ap/2006/09/23/ap3040165.html

Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said in Washington that Maduro was referred for secondary screening but never reached that section of the airport.

“He began to articulate his frustration with secondary screening right after he went through the magnetometer,” [Homeland Security spokesman Russ] Knocke said, referring to the walk-through metal detector. “Port Authority officials confronted him when the situation became a ruckus.” Knocke did not elaborate.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2483445

Knocke denied the allegations [that Maduro was mistreated], telling the AP that “there’s no evidence to substantiate any sort of abnormality in the screening process.”

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2483445&page=2

[ParentalAdvisory]

@friedo

He also bought his one-way ticket in cash 30 minutes before the flight.

While it may look bad, is this really a bad thing? I mean, they did exchange tickets for his cash right?

[Antigen]

@ParentalAdvisory

While it may look bad, is this really a bad thing? I mean, they did exchange tickets for his cash right?

One way ticket + last-second purchase + paid with wad of cash = suspicious.

[Quartz]

Sounds like a put-up-job by the Venezuelans to make the US look bad.

[ParentalAdvisory]

@Antigen

One way ticket + last-second purchase + paid with wad of cash = suspicious.

Then why do they bother to sell tickets for cash then? Who’s going to buy one with cash at the last second if they now know they’re going to be detained for an hour and a half while being interrogated on suspicion of terrorism? The terrorist that is going to be successful is going to be the one that is blended in with everyone else and buys the ticket ahead of time with a credit card. He’s not going to buy a ticket at the last second with a wad of cash, terrorists already know that this draws suspicion. Such a silly way of looking at it from the TSA’s point of view.

Not directed at you, just felt it needed to be said.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Former Embassy brat checking in. My father was a career State Department guy and our family travelled frequently with dip passports. We were never searched (which was great at airports because we just got waved right through customs without having to wait in line) but my dad always said they could if they wanted to. There’s no dip immunity involved, it’s just a mutual courtesy. Countries don’t normally search dips at customs unless they have a really good reason. It’s not forbidden, it’s just very unusual.

Incidentally, I have personally had the experience of being arrested in a foreign country and escaping charges because I had diplomatic immunity. It wasn’t really as great as it sounds. I got busted with weed and after I showed my diplomatic ID (the families of dips get them too), I was brought to the American Embassy where I had to stare at an armed Marine guard until my father came to get me (who I feared more than the cops). Even though I couldn’t be prosecuted in-country, I still got kicked out of the country (and had to face the wrath of my dad).

[Gfactor]

@Diogenes the Cynic

There’s no dip immunity involved, it’s just a mutual courtesy. Countries don’t normally search dips at customs unless they have a really good reason. It’s not forbidden, it’s just very unusual.

Actually, it’s a bit more complicated. First there is a distinction between the receiving state and one that the diplomat is just passing through. Even in transit, the diplomat’s person is inviolable, but his personal baggage (not diplomatic bag) can be searched. E.g., “Legal Opinion Concerning the Swiss Inspection of Baggage and Seizure of Ivory of the Turkish Ambassador to the Democratic Republic of Congo,” http://www.lclark.edu/org/ielp/diplo_immun.html.

And then there is the distinction between the diplomat’s person, his luggage, and the diplomatic bag. In the receiving state, the diplomat’s person remains inviolable, but his luggage is inviolable, with some exceptions. And many scholars agree that non-invasive screening does not offend inviolability. As I pointed out in my staff report,

The U.S. has also recently noted that diplomatic luggage is given different treatment under the VCDR than diplomatic bags. Article 36(2) of the VCDR says, “The personal baggage of a diplomatic agent shall be exempt from inspection, unless there are serious grounds for presuming that it contains articles not covered by the exemptions mentioned in paragraph 1 of this Article, or articles the import or export of which is prohibited by the law or controlled by the quarantine regulations of the receiving State. Such inspection shall be conducted only in the presence of the diplomatic agent or of his authorized representative.” **The U.S. has indicated that it intends to X-ray and screen diplomats and their luggage. **The Office of Foreign Missions has reminded the diplomatic community that the “Vienna Conventions do not prohibit the searching of luggage if there is suspicion of contraband, and any luggage that triggers a response by the [explosive detection system], explosives detector machines, dogs, or fails passenger-bag matching falls under suspicion of being contraband.”

(Emphasis added.)

If the diplomat doesn’t comply with the screening, or the screening sets off alarms, the receiving country can probably take further action.

In other words, x-ray, metal detector, and explosive detector good–body cavity search–not.

Even though I couldn’t be prosecuted in-country, I still got kicked out of the country (and had to face the wrath of my dad).

I take it you weren’t prosecuted here either.

[Guinastasia]

Are there any limits to diplomatic immunity? Even murder, or rape?

[friedo]

@Guinastasia

Are there any limits to diplomatic immunity? Even murder, or rape?

When it happens, the diplomats are generally kicked out of the country and prosecuted by their home country.

Unless it’s Saudi Arabia, in which case they give the guy a royal desk job.

[Gfactor]

@Guinastasia

Are there any limits to diplomatic immunity? Even murder, or rape?

Not based on the type of crime.

**friedo **is right. The receiving state hopes that the diplomat will be prosecuted by the sending state. OTOH, books like Ashman & Trescott’s Diplomatic Crime: Drugs, Killings, Thefts, Rapes, Slavery & Other Outrageous Crimes (1987) and Barker, The Abuse of Diplomatic Privileges and Immunities: A Necessary Evil? (1996) give plenty of examples of cases that didn’t work out that way.

[Mr.Slant]

My first thought on searching a diplomat is, even if you can, why bother?
If you can’t arrest him or detain him, then what purpose besides satisfying curiousity does searching him serve?
Can’t detain a diplomat. Okay.
Let’s say a diplomat is carrying a prohibited item on his person and passes through airport security. Let’s make the item a hand grenade. Let’s assume it is detected, leaving manner of detection
Could anyone keep him off of the plane?
I’ll assume airport security would have to permit him through. Perhaps the airline could trespass him from their plane as a matter of private property rights?

[Gfactor]

@Mr. Slant

My first thought on searching a diplomat is, even if you can, why bother?
If you can’t arrest him or detain him, then what purpose besides satisfying curiousity does searching him serve?
Can’t detain a diplomat. Okay.
Let’s say a diplomat is carrying a prohibited item on his person and passes through airport security. Let’s make the item a hand grenade. Let’s assume it is detected, leaving manner of detection
Could anyone keep him off of the plane?
I’ll assume airport security would have to permit him through. Perhaps the airline could trespass him from their plane as a matter of private property rights?

Reasonable constraints, however, may be applied in emergency circumstances involving self-defense, public safety, or the prevention of serious criminal acts.

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/immunities/c9127.htm

[Diceman]

@Quartz

Sounds like a put-up-job by the Venezuelans to make the US look bad.

I’m with you. You mean to tell me that a high-ranking official in the Venezualan government doesn’t plan his trips in advance? Or that he doesn’t have a credit card, or some way of buying his ticket other than by pulling out a large wad of cash, like some sort of streetcorner drug dealer? :dubious:

The only way this guy could possibly raise more red flags would be if he was carrying a suitcase that was ticking. This was staged by Hugo Chavez and his boys.

[samclem]

@Diceman

The only way this guy could possibly raise more red flags would be if he was carrying a suitcase that was ticking. This was staged by Hugo Chavez and his boys.

And this is still General Questions. Stick to the OP.

samclem GQ moderator

[samclem]

@Quartz

Sounds like a put-up-job by the Venezuelans to make the US look bad.

Stick to the OP.

samclem GQ moderator