I’ll bet it got better reviews than Talladega Nights.
You realise he’s actually a commie spy, right? :eek:
One of the easiest ways to test stimulus/response is to post a thread with anecdotal examples of animals thinking/processing information/showing emotion.
Shortly you will have someone show up and claim it’s just stimulus/response.
These people don’t have to think about this, and they certainly don’t intend to review their established assumptions. They’re just responding.
To a stimulus.
Sailboat
I don’t believe it’s as simple as plain “stimulus response.” It is a form of communication, but it’s my opinion that the dog is more attuned to the body language aspects than the actual words themselves. That is not to say that a dog cannot connect words with actions, just that the words *in conjunction *with body language is what gives them a clearer meaning to the dog.
I’ve always believed that most social animals, including dogs, experience emotions, at least at their most basic levels. Emotion is basically a chemical process (i.e, the sensations of love result from the brain being flooded by seratonin and oxytocin). They’re not as complex as human emotions, of course, because we attatch social constructions to emotion which other animals lack.
Lissa, such reasoned and moderate thinking is exactly the type of response that doesn’t fit here. Clearly, what’s called for is an either/or stance. Your calm and mediated view is far too rational to settle in comfortably here. What do you mean by suggesting that you “don’t believe it’s as simple as…”? Or your suggestion that dogs may experience emotions, since they’re chemical processes but they’re not as complex as human emotions? How dare you suggest such heresy? What causes you to be so wishy washy? So moderate? How can you be so reasonable here? This is an outrage. I am going to write a letter to my congressman. My dog reads Dave Barry and enjoys it as much as I do, and I am not making this up. In fact, he even knows when I want to read another chapter - tomorrow. hee hee.
Has anyone disputed that dogs think/process information/show emotion? Seriously, can you point me to it?
I think Lissa has made that distinction quite clear. Humans attach a web of social constructions to the feelings that aroused by, say, the arrival of a loved one whom one has not seen for a long time. But on some level, we and our dogs probably have some strong similar feelings when we finally see that face. It simply has to be - I’m sorry to some constructivists,or whatever the name this line of scientists happens to be going by this decade - but based on what you see when a dog sees his “master” when the guy/girl comes home at the end of the day. The wagging tail, the jumping around, the smile on his face, when that door finally opens - don’t tell me you don’t know how he feels. That’s fucking emotion.
Do dogs sense time? I ask because saturday morning is when the dogs expect to “go in the ar”. its uncanny-they know I am not going to work, and they line up at the door. the female (daisy) gets so excited that she jumps up and down. mondays, the dogs ignore me!
Yes. It’s been shown by many anecdotes on this and other bulletin boards and other sources of information on the internet, that dogs have a sense of time that includes an awareness of the days of the week and the months of the year. One dog, a famous sheepdog, actually was aware of Y2K, and seemed to be aware that it was not going to affect the household’s computers or clocks. It was waiting at the door at the normal hour, proving pretty convincingly that it was aware of the time, even with the change from one century to another. Some dogs have a sense of timing, also, and can really tell a joke. But, many don’t have a sense of humor, so it is a wasted on most of them.
For really boisterous dogs, every day is a leap day.
I think they do, but maybe not in the sense that they can tell time. I sleep a little later during weekends and so does doggie. That means that the big noon walk is postponed two hours and sure enough, around 1.30 - 1.45, he starts stirring, panting and acting like he *really * needs to go out now.
It seems to me that he’s got an idea about how long from breakfast till long midday walk.
Of course, it might just be that I’m shifting position in my armchair the same way every day, when we’re about to go out and he’s picking up on that. (It’s not bodily functions though, as we’ve been out for a brief walk around the block around noon.)
Is this directed at me? If so, WTF? If not, nevermind.
Quite the contrary.
And that’s illegal in every state.
Dogs definatly understand praise and scorn. Neither are directing them to take any action.
I think that perhaps there are moments, brief discreet instants, where we forget that our dogs cannot understand us; and they forget they cannot understand us. In this second the gap is jumped and we communicate as equals.
Lightnin’ provided a great example:
*Several years ago, I told my oldest, Flash, to go find his ball. He started looking all over the room for it, 'cause he loves playing fetch. He couldn’t find it, and came back to me… I guess he thought I had it.
I said, “Hey, I don’t have it. Have you checked the computer room?”
His ears shot up, and he ran to the back of the house to the computer room… and came back a few seconds later with his ball.*
This flash cannot be manufactured, but I am convinced that it does occur.
The most striking evidence I have of this is the time I wondered aloud “… what was the Gross National Product of Zimbabwe in 1999?” and my dog looked up and said “Google it, you hopeless bastard.’
But do they understand the words, or the tone of voice and body language. If you scorned them in a soothing, loving voice, how would they respond?
Everything is. Humans are stimuli/response machines even, just our branch of evolution opted for more responses over better ones.
I agree that tone of voice and body language is a big part of it. but I still think they are able to figure out a few words. My dogs know what “do you want to go outside?” means. I think I’ll try saying the words out of order and see what they do. I’ll try it later using a different tone of voice, like I’m mad (I don’t know if I can fake mad). I do wonder if a stranger were to say simply “outside” with no excitement if they would do anything at all.
Dumb or not, I love them all.
Sorry about the lateness of my response-- I’ve been out of town.
Actually, I’d say that praise and scorn do direct the dog to take action. The praise encourages the dog to do the same thing again in order to get more attention/treats, whereas the scorn makes the dog want to stop doing whatever earned it.
Dogs are very eager to please their owners. People sometimes don’t even realize the subtle encouragement/discouragement that dogs can glean from even the most casual interraction.
If the dog knows you’re speaking to him, he’ll atuomatically wag his tail or show some excitement/interest. The best way to test whether he actually recognizes the word would be to do it in a situation where the dog is not interacting with you and you appear to be interracting with something else-- like talking on the phone. Try inserting them into your grocery list and then reading it aloud in a monotone.
It’s very, very hard to hide your body language. The more you try, the tenser you will get and the dog can detect that from a mile away.
In a very rudimentary sense, yes. Dogs are creatures of habit, and they thrive on routine. Very likely, they get external cues that help them keep track of “time” such as sunlight patterns or noises which happen every day at the same time.
Again, though, you have to be careful in assuming that they’re going off of some independant sense and not gathering cues from your behavior. It’s very easy to assume the dog “knows” the time when their excitement is really caused by you glancing at the clock and getting tenser as the time to go approaches.