Just wanted to bellow a hearty AMEN to this statement.
I am sick and tired of people putting other people into boxes because THEY say that is the box YOU should be in. Whether it be a “You should stay HOME with your kids” box, or a “You aren’t fulfilling yourself IF you stay home with your kids” box.
BOTH are wrong. Putting people in BOXES is wrong. When are we as a society going to GET that?
Deep down a lot of men want to be nurturers too. Watch a father pick up his child. If we didn’t have nurturing instincts then we’d lay eggs in the sand and swim away.
There is lots of evidence that we learn our roles. There is also lots of evidence that we have innate biologically-derived feelings (look up the hormone oxytocin for a start.) If you could prove your claim to have the facts you’d get the Nobel prize.
Some people have nurturing feelings sometimes. And some people, Suspenderzzz, do not.
I enter as evidence:
“This is one of the first looks into the biological basis for human attachment and bonding,” said Rebecca Turner, PhD, UCSF adjunct assistant professor of psychiatry and lead author of the study. “Our study indicates that oxytocin may be mediating emotional experiences in close relationships.”
www.oxytocin.org
As far as oxytocin goes (and it’s just one example) there are better sites than the one I gave above. Try google or
http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/index.html
While at university, a friend of a friend who was in her 3rd year got pregnant, decided to drop out of university, marry the father and stay at home to raise the kid. Without exception the women I knew on campus just shook their heads and said “what a waste.”
It seems to me that the feminist agenda has shifted over the years from one of empowering women to go out and do whatever it is they want to do – be it work, raise a family, both, or neither – to instructing women to do whatever they want, provided they do not choose a “traditional” role.
I congratulate you, Scantilly, for making a choice based on what you find fulfilling, not based on what society or peers have instructed you to choose.
First, I feel that XJETGIRLX wasn’t being (as you seem to later suggest) purposefully obtuse when she said this:
in response to your comment:
. I believe that making yourself more clear would have been preferable to making a snide comment about “humoring” XJETGIRLX.
Next, I think that your assertion that married people who choose to stay home instead of working outside the home place themselves
is presumptuous, at best, insulting at worst. It ties in to your view of wedded companionship in general, which I don’t want to rehash.
Sexism peeps out of our sentences in little ways. When have you ever heard a man say, “My wife helps me out with the housework”? How often is a man asked how he handles career and a family at the same time?
Scantilly, I understand your wanting to share your joy with us. But we can’t really tell you if you are going to be happy as a homemaker. Some women are and others aren’t. (The urge to nurture is not universal.)
The feminists that I have known for over thirty years would tell you to do what makes you happy. (They are the ones who worked to get homemaking recognized as real work that should be compensated with Social Security.) I have never heard one of them dismiss homemaking as unworthy.
It’s terrific that you have been able to indulge in such an adventurous lifestyle. You have great memories and you haven’t left much undone. And maybe that may be something that you can continue to do even if you are not single.
What if your SO said that you could not do that and you really wanted to? (Just curious!)
It is not unusual to enjoy doing things for the man that you are in love with. But for some women, that gets old quickly. I truly don’t know many intelligent, well-travelled people who derive lasting fulfillment from the actual cleaning that has to be done. What’s more, they have to make a real effort to participate in the world outside the home so that hey remain interesting and interested.
If you are very lucky, the glittery, melty feeling of being in love will morf into something solid and stable and deep. You won’t be as giddy at that stage and may tire of household chores.
None of us know how it will be for you. May I suggest that you do two important things. Make sure that your SO understands that you intend to take on the responsibility of making yourself happy and that he should do the same for himself. Also, you will need to have a savings account of your own that you can rely on in emergency situations where you may not have access to your SO’s money.
As for myself, I didn’t really enjoy my career that much because public school systems are a wreck. I would have preferred to stay home, which I do now.
I made sure that my husband-to-be understood that I don’t cook and my housecleaning is minimal. He agreed that that was fine.
Then about two years into the marriage, he was in a fussy mood and said, “I want someone to clean and cook for me!” I responded, “So do I.” 
That was the end of that discussion.
I wish you every happiness wherever you go and what ever you do!
Uhm… I guess I shoulda clarified that my comments were directed toward Suspenderzzz. Sorry 'bout that.
And Scantilly, if the domesticity thing fullfills you, go for it!
Scantilly, based on my own personal experience, I would say that you’re experiencing a combination of growing up and maturing and having a fulfilling relationship in your life. I’m one of the most independent people I know, and when I met my now-husband three years ago at 33, I settled down with him, got married, and am living a life of domesticity now. I have never been happier in my life, and I don’t feel I have given up one iota of my independence. In fact, I feel like I have more freedom with him than I did before I met him. (Love ya, baby.)
When us guys get together we talk a lot about how to handle career and family at the same time. We talk about wives, partners, kids, friends, family. Politicians and executives drop out of the success game to spend more time with their families, and they say so to the press. The rest of us are acutely aware of the problem of having a balanced life.
There is a lot of sexism in society about men and what we are, as evidenced by your post. It contains assumptions which do not reflect the reality about men that I experience every day.
It has been a few weeks since I put up this thread and I feel compelled to re-address some of the issues that have been raised.
First I want to be clear that I believe it is possible to enjoy a deep connection with a partner at the same time as succeeding professionally in the world. While I continue to enjoy the simple intimacy of cooking a delicious meal of teriyaki salmon and spiced rice and watching Star Trek re-runs I continue to work full time and LOVE my job. I am the Director of Arts Programs for an innovative community based organization and am thrilled to have found a position that is challenging and inspiring. I am looking to a second career as a travel photographer because I love exploring new places and capturing the hearts of landscapes and personalities in images. My SO supports my goals and visions and if I decided to embark on something new we would work out some way to make it happen. I think the success of a relationship, or a LIFE for that matter, is to identify what makes you happy and then fill your life up with those things. I am just learning how to do that but am committed to learning how to do it fabulously well.
I originally posted this thread to explore the seemingly incredibly controversial notion that there can be joy in domesticity and the quiet mundane tasks that one encounters when sharing a home with somebody.
I used to wonder whether “experience” and “connection” where mutually exclusive. I think I am discovering that it is possible to develop a deep connection with somebody and enjoy simple pleasure at the same time as fostering a healthy fascination for the world and it’s mysteries.
The one thing I have learned from this thread and listening to your responses is that I’m not angry more! While I am passionate about the need to continue advocating for freedom of choice, I think the best way to do that is to live a life that comes from a place of truth for me. I think it takes a bold and courageous personality to make choices that make us truly happy. I think that for me I will need to continue traveling and searching and reveling in the treasures the world has to offer. At the same time I am thrilled to be settled for the moment and it just so happens that I have discovered that doing the dishes MAKES ME HAPPY. And that’s the point!
Thankyou for your fascinating responses.
And this is precisely the reason why romantics are rarely happy. Because, no matter what’s going on in the romance department, you’ll always need clean underwear.
Typical Suspenderzzz overreaction. Suspenderzzz, on the off-chance that you’re not just trolling, chill out before you have a stroke.
I agree, genie but would like to point out one little thing.
My foremothers fought so that I could choose my own life, whatever that choice may be.
Goo,
who doesn’t want a ‘family’ or a ‘career’.
What exactly are you planning then? To be a jobless old spinster?Well, now I’m really seeing why some people think other people’s choices are pretty wack.
j_kat, you seem to see only two options. There are more options out there than career or jobless, just as there are more options than family or old spinster. I’m hoping it’s just a misunderstanding or a difference in how we define family and career. I’m sorry you feel that anything other than having a career or family is a choice that is ‘out of wack’. I’m happy with my life, and I’m pretty sure I’ll continue to be happy. I hope you are happy too, even if you choose something completely opposite to my choices. I wouldn’t dream of insulting your plans or life or choices, just because they aren’t the choices I’d make, how about extending that courtesy to others ?
Scantilly, like others have already said, follow your heart and do what makes you happy. I hope your happiness stays with you always.
Sure, fine, whatever you like.
Some things I did for the stories I could tell.
And some, so that I would have someone to tell those stories to.
A life is a big thing. Fill it with lots of stuff.
Tris