Umm, I am sorry, but as a member of the Celtic Christian Church, I am, indeed, a Christian (altho, perhaps, personally not a very good one), and we accept that all other “good” religions have their own core of truth. They might not go to OUR heaven, but they, if virtuous, may well go to theirs*.
Of course, we still feel we have the Best and “easiest” way, and the “most complete truth”, but other “good’ religions are not “wrong”, in our eyes, just 'doing things the hard way”.
The best example of this is Judiasm, especially the Orthodox, who have some very complex rules to follow. Their “way” is not 'wrong" to us, just “inefficient”. I hpoe I do not offend any of my Jewish brethren by saying this, as I do have a deep respect for their “way”. It’s kinda like watching somebody who wants to make bread start out by planting wheat, while we turn on the bread machine.
*clearly we CCC do not know if they will, but they are not “damned”.
Sorry Daniel, but I think you are disagreeing with something I said (the quoted stuff) but I am not really sure what part you had a problem with.
As best as I can gather your comments might center around my statements of only one God from the Christian POV.
Now, I am not sure of your beliefs or a number of other denominations beliefs for that matter, but AFAIK, Christian denominations only worship one God.
However, you mention other religions, so are you talking about you allow that each religion has their own God so that there are multiple Gods.
I am sorry I am confused, so if you could please explain this I would greatly appreciate it.
No offence taken here, Dan. But then again, I don’t get offended if a Christian fundamentalist believes that all Jews go straight to hell, either. To each his own. As long as everyone leaves everyone else alone to do their own thing.
And that is precisely the point where I do get offended! And my answer is the same as your, oddly enough. To each his own, or His own, in the case of judgment and Salvation. Jesus was a Jew, I think. If all the Jews are going to hell, I am going to have to ask politely if I can come along, because I will be following Him.
You seem to be able to forgive fundamentalist Christians for the hateful pronouncement that you and all Jews are going to hell. Judgment on you passed by them, in Jesus’ name. You are demonstrating the character that their own Savior calls upon them to seek in themselves.
You do not judge them. You say, “To each his own.” You act as a decent man, to someone who has treated you indecently. Returning love for hate. The exact commandment of the man who they believe is the Son of God, their own personal savior. And the words “to each his own” have another, and very ironic meaning as well. For judgment is owned. In the view of most Christians judgment is reserved to Christ. Those who pronounce judgments by the rules they wish to believe are asking to be judged by those rules. You choose to allow each soul to seek what is its will without your judgment. It is a good and decent thing. You are a shining example to anyone, Jew, or Christian of what we should expect of ourselves.
So, I get offended by what you forgive. Yours is the better answer from a Christian point of view. But I still have to rant, sorry, because Christian Theology Thugs just piss me off. The irony of a non Christian as unconscious peacemaker between snarling Christians is pretty funny, don’t you think?
This is a fascinating thread, and I applaud the posters. I would like to add my experience to the thread.
I went to Georgetown University (a Catholic Jesuit school, for those who don’t know) as an undergrad, and a required course back then was “The Problem of God”. This course was offered as part of the Jesuit’s firm belief that “an unreflected faith is not worthy of God.” The course varied from professor to professor, but generally consisted of readings and intense discussion of the beliefs of both religious and non-religious philosophers, activists, etc.
And man, did the course cause trouble! As my priestly friends told me, the school received calls almost weekly from irate parents infuriated that the course had turned their children into agnostics or atheists. The Jezzies were not deterred, however. They were trying to force their students to think about their faith and, to a large extent, they suceeded.
My own experience was that I entered the course as an atheist. I left as an atheist, but I was no longer anti-religion.
How does this relate to the topic? Well, I think that the Christian God, if said entity exists, does not want automatons - else why would there be free will? And part of that is knowing what you believe and why. When you look at most any religion I can think of, there are a lot of beliefs and practices that are, at first glance, silly. As one example, Jews and pork. I think that a Jew, this day and age, who says they don’t eat pork because the pig is a disgusting animal hasn’t done much thinking, and is not going to contribute much to the religious life of his/her community. The Jew who says he doesn’t eat pork because, for example, as a symbol of the covenant between his people and God, has done some thinking and is a better person and better soul for it. (my example is probably wrong, but you get my idea)
Sua
Much as I enjoy being described as a “shining example to anyone”, I must, in this instance, decline the honor. I do not “forgive” the “hateful pronouncement” that I and all Jews are going to hell - I simply do not regard it as hateful. If there would be fundamentalists railing constantly against the Jews, calling on the people to take action against the Christ-deniers, I don’t know if I would be quite so forgiving. However, if a person can be pleasant to all people, but merely believe that anyone who does not follow Path X is going to hell, than that is his prerogative. I have my beliefs, the Christian fundamentalists have theirs, any number of other groups have theirs. It’s no different than if I buy a car and someone else tells me that that particular car is junk and will break down. If I disagree with him, I buy it anyway. He thinks it will break down - I think it won’t. As long as you give me the freedom to buy whatever car I like, I’ll be glad to let you think whatever you want about my decision.
In general, I personally do not think it is a good idea for anyone, fundamentalist or not, to put too much of a focus on whether or not various other people are going to hell. It’s far more productive to worry about your own soul. But if forced to take a stand, the rational outcome of believing in right and wrong may sometimes require the belief that some people out there are wrongdoers. If those “wrongdoers” disagree with this characterization, they should be confident in themselves, be glad that they have the freedom to act on their own consciences, and spend less energy trying to force other people to accept that what they are doing is right.