For now. I’ll have a question that includes Negro Leaguers, Japanese players, etc.
The problem with starting from scratch is that once you get past Babe Ruth, there are a whole cluster of players who are more or less equally deserving of being in the top three. Just naming outfielders off the top of my head I can think of Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Musial, Williams, DiMaggio, Bonds, Cobb, Clemente, and Robinson.
Maybe we should start by taking the current members of the HOF and start voting out those we feel unworthy
Griffey Jr. and Ichiro were both gold glove outfielders and amazing hitters. I’ll add them to your list. Neither would be in the top two or three of all time. But not too far down the list.
Try and stay focused on the OP.
Name the top 3 only.
Ruth
Bonds
And
Honus Wagner, who to my shock hasn’t been mentioned yet. No doubt in my mind that in a lively ball era he would have contended for multiple home run crowns, while fielding short at a Gold Glove level. His dead ball era stats tend to underplay his dominance to a certain extent, and that includes defensively where we simply don’t have the data that modern players do. I am sure tho that in certain lively ball eras he would have been moved to third, but once Yount and Ripken showed that bigger men could play there he’d slot right back in at short.
The ones who finish just out of the top three will get their chance in the next round, I promise. There’s almost no distinction between one of the three best all-time and being one of the four best, is there? As you note, there are many more than three players deserving of top three honors --we’re just sorting fine distinctions for now.
The funny thing about baseball is that fans get caught up in the numbers, as if they mean anything in different eras. Nobody ever says that some point guard in the 1950s or a running back in the 1940s were the greatest players in their respective sports. So, no, I can’t go with any players from baseball’s infancy or growth years, white or black leagues. The level of competition is a joke compared to the modern game.
With that in mind: Bonds, Mays and Aaron. You can’t compare pitchers and position players in any meaningful way, so pitchers: Clemens, Maddux and Seaver.
Rogers Hornsby, Honus Wagner, Willie Mays
Is Bonds in just for hitting, or was he an outstanding fielder in his earlier days? (
Bonds was the all-around greatest baseball player ever. Yes, he was terrific defensively through most of his career, especially when he was younger.
Of course, that puts aside the steroid question. Still, it’s hard to fathom a player with 762 home runs, 514 stolen bases and a .444 OBP. One of a kind.
Actually, plenty of people think that a 1950s-1960s center, Chamberlain, is basketball’s GOAT.
And likewise, Otto Graham is very often mentioned as one of the greatest football players of all time. He played from 1946-55. Comparing players across eras is difficult, but it’s not impossible. There will always be gray blurry lines, but the discussion is certainly possible.
Love this project! I’ll be following closely.
Not much point in getting cute here. I think the three greatest position players of all time are Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, and Babe Ruth (in that order).
For me personally, trying to compare players across eras in an objective way is a waste of time. It’s probably true that if you took Babe Ruth at age 30 and transported him to 2023, he’d struggle mightily - but it’s also probably true that if you took Babe Ruth at age 16 and transported him to 2009, he’d have trained differently and learned the sport differently and would surely have developed into a more competitive player. So, for my part, I’ll be defining greatness relative to one’s peers, rather than relative to some kind of objective standard.
By that measure, Bonds and Ruth are way ahead of anyone else who’s ever played (I don’t care even one little bit about steroids). I’m less confident in Mays - Stan Musial was pretty great, andohbytheway Mike Trout is too - but I wanted to pick only one more.
Ty Cobb
Pete Rose
Christy Mathewson
Ruth
Mantle
Williams
So far we have eleven nominations, thirty-three votes in all:
OP-- Ruth, Mays, Bonds.
Tibby-- Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, and Mickey Mantle
Lone rhino – Ruth, Mays, Bonds.
Munch–Mays, Bonds and Aaron.
Southern Yankee – Ruth, Mays and Ted Williams.
W-E? --Ruth, Mays, Cobb
Wilson— Ruth, Mays and Ted Williams.
John DiFool — Ruth Bonds Honus Wagner
Storyteller 0910 —Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, and Babe Ruth
Saint Cad —Ty Cobb Pete Rose Christy Mathewson
Loach – Ruth Mantle Williams
So far (I haven’t counted jaycat.again yet—not sure if he was naming Cobb and Young as his two nominees, or as additions to my three nominees) we have 9 votes for Ruth, 8 for Mays, 5 for Bonds, 3 for Williams, 2 each for Mantle and Cobb and 1 each for Wagner, Aaron, Rose, and Mathewson. Unless we get some nominations in the next few hours, or get some clarity from jaycat.again or Procrustus, I’m going to end this part, and pose my question #2 later this morning.
I’ll withdraw my vote and sit back and observe.
@RickJay already did, a few years back. I hope he joins in with this project, though - I’m always interested in reading his perspectives on baseball, even though I barely follow the sport myself. It will be interesting to see what differences there are between the two approaches.
Lamest of lame nitpicks. Chamberlain played 31 NBA games in 1959. Also, it’s been about 40 years since I heard anyone claim he was the greatest. For obvious reasons.
Otto Graham? Lol.
I found them, finished up about 15 years ago in 2008.
I am tagging them though. baseball-mlb
This one leads to the rest of them: SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame, Round 8: Left Fielders
I found a more recent attempt in 2016-2017: The SDMB Hall of Fame Project: Third Basemen