The apartment complex my grandmother lives in recently installed speed limit signs, with a limit of three miles per hour. Am I required legally to follow this speed limit, since it’s not on a public road? If I am required to obey the limit, can anyone designate the limit of their choice on their own private property?
Just jot an semi-spam email that might be of some intrest to you but not much help
oops, can’t believe I did that. That was for another thread.
I don’t really know, but I’ll WAG that those who own the property can forbid you access. I doubt they can make you pay a fine. I got a speeding ticket on an Air Force base once (only time I’ve ever had traffic cops setup a perimeter with M-16s - I don’t know much about military life, but it occurred to me that they had to be newbies practicing). Ultimate end result for non-Air Force beatle was zippo - sign the ticket and proceed on my merry way.
And I suspect k2dave has had one of “those” posting moments.
I’m going to make some educated guesses on this one. I’m sure some lawyer-types will pop in to offer definitive answers. Legally-mandated speed limits apply only to public roads. Local police departments do not have the authority to ticket you for speeding on private property, because it is outside their jurisdiction. Officers are entrusted with protecting the public health and safety. Your speeding on private property does not endanger the public. You don’t even need a driver’s license to do it. The offense is against a <i>place</i>, not the public. Now, let’s say you hit a little old lady while doing donuts in the parking lot - you can’t get a speeding ticket, but you CAN be arrested for reckless driving and endangerment. If you’re driving drunk on private property, that CAN be an arrestable offense depending on jurisdiction. There are trends in some towns to increase the reach of local law enforcement to private property for minor infractions, and that’s unfortunate, so YMMV.
Haven’t you ever wondered why many apartment complexes and large commercial zones (i.e. malls) have their own security forces? It’s to enforce the rules defined by the property owner - rules that cannot be legally enforced by the police like 15 mph in the parking lot.
If you speed on private property and the owner doesn’t like it, your access can be prohibited.
Wouldn’t the condominium be able to “accept” jurisdiction so the police would be able to ticket you? The grounds of Catholic University, here in DC, are private but you sure as heck can get a ticket (I know it). I assume the University just accepts voluntarily the city jurisdiction.
In Virginia, the law prohibits speeding on “the highways of the Commonwealth.” This has generally been held to mean any road or area open to the public. Note that private property that’s generally open for the public to drive on (parking lots in apartment complexes, for instance) is subject to this rule. On the other hand, if your private driveway or south forty acres is posted “No Trespassing,” or it’s otherwise clear you don’t invite the public to drive around it, then you can drive however you like… except that you should keep in mind that the law also explicitly forbids speeding “…in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person…” pretty much anywhere.
- Rick
You can be ticketed on private property if the property owner has agreed to come under the jurisdiction of the local police. A subdivision in the County where I was planning director had private roads (no VDOT funds used in the construction or maintenance), but the HomeOwners Assoc. had an agreement with the local police that allowed them to patrol the streets and enforce traffic laws.
Well, Evil, you’re kinda sorta right. Most large organizations- corporations, condo associatins, etc.- use private security forces. While they are not police, many are peace officers and so are empowered to enforce local laws.
DuPont Corporation does indeed have an extremely active security force, for obvious reasons. When tooling around some of their lovely campuses in Delaware, you will witness a sign that says, “Speed Limit 13 mph”. That’s right, they’ve had engineers actually come in and determine safe speeds for every turn. Since all turns are slightly different, the speeds are different.
The security inside can’t issue you a local moving violation, that’s true. They can simply stop you from being allowed access to the campus. BAD thing, if you make a living at DuPont.
OTOH, I am on a United States Air Force Base 2-3 times a week these days. There is a posted speed limit, and we’ve been told that we WILL be stopped by the Special Forces Police and ticketed- a fine that must be paid. Me, I’m not interested in fighting with the Special Forces so I don’t speed. I assume that military law is in effect on the base and civillians can be cited for speeding and required to pay a fee.
Speeding on private property sure as hell does endanger the public, and posession of an operator’s license is irrelevant. If you speed, and there is a posted limit, then assume the people who posted that limit can enforce the speed.
Cartooniverse
Here is what the statute is in Ohio:
Sorry that it is so long, but I hoppe that helps.
That is similar to how Florida is…
Generally, you cannot be fined for traffic violations on private property. If the property owners have a deal with the police, there will be a sign that says “Police Enforced” or something like that.
The apartment complex could make you pay a fine to them as part of your lease agreement if you are caught speeding… so read your lease. You could not get your license suspended for not paying or anything like that, but they might evict you if you keep it up.
Excuse me, but 3 MPH? That’s slower than walking speed!
Well most handicapped parking is on Private Property but the police clearly can ticket you.
As with any question about the law, it can’t be answered definitively without knowing where you live.
In Washington State, almost all traffic laws apply only on the public roads and can’t be enforced on private property. Notable exceptions are DUI, reckless driving, negligent driving and disabled parking violations.
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- A county officer in my state (IL) once told me that you can’t be ticketed for traffic violations on private property at all. -So for instance (my very example), if you do 50 mph across Wal-Mart’s parking lot and hit someone else’s car, they ticket you for hitting someone else’s car, not for doing 50 mph across a parking lot. They may note something like “going ridiculously fast” on the report and the judge has some discretion in sentencing you, but most state traffic laws apply only to signs placed on public roads by federal, state or local government agencies, and the one exception is a stop sign (or traffic lights) at the exit of a private road, that empties onto a public road. That stop sign (or yield sign) is placed by the local government, and you do have to obey it.
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- Also interesting is that if a private road isn’t up to code, the police cannot “patrol” it or “use” it at all. A local developer bult one small back street in a subdividsion that wasn’t up to code. It was intended as only a temporary “back way access” for construction equipment, but residents started using the gravel pathway because it was very conveniently placed (there was no other entrance from that direction into the subdivision), so he had it graded and asphalted over. - Months later, city inspectors informed him that the street wasn’t up to code: it wasn’t wide enough, didn’t have proper lighting or drainage, etc, and so not only would the local police/emergency vehicles not use it, but the city would not incorporate it, and so it would remain his private property and he would be liable for any injuries that occurred on it. He had a big mound of dirt piled on it to keep people from using it until the improvements could be finished, and it was later incorporated and cleared. “A kind deed,” - MC
It sounds like both of those incidents (doing “50 mph across Wal-Mart’s parking lot” and “hitting someone else’s car”) are each TRAFFIC violations. So, how is it you can be ticketed for one while they will ignore the other? At a minimum if “you can’t be ticketed for traffic violations on private property at all”; neither infraction should be citable.
And, both MAY very well be citable traffic violation in Illinois under certain conditions. See Illinois State Statutes:
(625 ILCS 5/11-209), (625 ILCS 5/11-209.1) and (625 ILCS 5/11-210). These can be found at this URL: http://www.legis.state.il.us/ilcs/ch625/ch625act5articles/ch625act5sub47.htm
Yes, private property laws depend on your local laws & ordnances.
e.g. here if you are caught drinking in public & you are under age you can be arrested. However, you can also be arrested for drinking underage on private property & they fine you more for that. Yep.