Can I replace motherboard + processor without an OS reinstall?

Factual Questions
1

My computer I’ve got at the moment is just about doing OK for word-processing, but it’s a ‘Media Center’ and it seems to be struggling with watching TV and running other programs of late.

I’m running Windows XP Media Center Edition, with a 2.6GHz P4 and 512mg of RAM.

The biggest thing I’d like to upgrade is the ram, hopefully taking it up to 2Gig (if my money stretches). I’d also like to swap my processor if possible, move to an Athlon 64, for which I’m obviously going to have to swap my motherboard.

I’ve seen what I think is a good deal on ebuyer.com for a 3000+ Athlon 64 and motherboard bundle. I will be adding more RAM, hopefully (my current stick of 512 is compatible, handily), but will the increase in processor power be noticeable? Mine seems to be struggling when running games or a couple of big programs at the same time.

So can I get a new case (because I want a cool one, both temperature and aesthetics) and pop the motherboard and processor in and simply swap components over (from just shutting down my old PC, not formatting it)? I know I obviously can physically do this, but will the computer turn on properly or will it get confused and fall over? I seem to remember one of my more PC-knowledgeable friends telling me that because my computer was originally made by Packard Bell it might cause problems and I’d need to telephone them so they could tell me how to ‘release’ my system so I could change motherboards. Is this true or did I (or did he) make it up?

Another reason for the change in motherboard is the switch to PCI-Express, and obviously I’d be getting a compatible graphics card (want to get a good one and the slot be compatible with future tech.) so does this complicate things?

If I could do all those things, that’d be great! It’s the first step in upgrading my whole system, I want to add a smaller, much faster hard drive to run the OS and important programs from (hopefully upgrade to WMC2005 at the same time) and format my old big one to use for everything else. I’d also like to add a better TV tuner, one that works with digital terrestrial, then I’d never need to leave my room!

Any help in this would be much appreciated!

Thank you in advance,

Harry

2

When windows trys to authenticate itself, you may need to contact microsoft after doing this. Product activation is locked to specific hardware configurations. I’m not sure if this hardware hash is checked often, but it seems reasonable that windows update and other microsoft sites may use it. cite

3

From my experience, XP doesn’t play nicely with swapping motherboards, and will likely throw up lots of weird errors as you do. Though sometimes it works without problems. A clean install is best here (one of the reasons to keep separate partitions for your OS and data. I doubt you would need to call Packard Bell to “release” your system - your friend might have been thinking that you may need to reactivate Windows, and call Microsoft.

4

I’m looking at doing the same thing. I don’t know about OS reinstall (I’m setting aside a weekend just in case), but I thought you should consider the new nVidia NForce 430 chipset boards that come with GeForce 6100 built-in graphics and support Socket 939 processors up through AthlonX2 (the dual cores). This allows you to spend money now on RAM, and defer the purchase of a PCI-express card until your budget lines up with Just The Right Card. The GeForce 6100 is not a great gaming chip, but it is DirectX 9.0 compatible and should perform adequately as a gap-filler. Likewise, it supports old ATA hard drives but will accommodate SATA drives as you add them in the future.

Here are the two I’ve been looking at:
Gigabyte GA-K8N51GMF-9
Biostar TeForce 6100-939

Just my $0.02 (convert to pence at your peril).

5

I agree, I once tried to upgrade my mobo without reinstalling the system - they do not play nice together. Especially if you are also upgrading ram, video card, etc.

6

More specifically, changing motherboard chipsets can cause problems with Windows. Most of the OS is the same regardless of the platform you run it on, but there is a bunch of code (a bit less than 100 KB, the last time I looked) called the hardware abstraction layer (HAL). This piece of code is configured at install time for the chipset of your motherboard. Unfortunately, since it’s the very first part of the OS loaded, it’s the only part that can’t be changed automatically (virtually every other device in your system can be swapped and the OS will properly handle removing the old driver and loading a new one).

If you are switching to a new type of processor, you are almost certainly moving to a different chipset.

As mentioned above, a system that diverges too much from the initial configuration will cause problems with the Windows XP/2003 registration. However, simply calling Microsoft and explaining the issue is sufficient to get an over-ride code from them.

7

If you change the Motherboard, some type of system reinstall is going to be needed unless they are the same base chipset and veeeery close otherwise.

A clean install is always preferred from a performance/reliability standpoint.

From a lazy standpoint, you can also try a repair install. Shut down, make your hardware changes, boot to the windows CD, skip the first repair option, select your current windows directory for install, and accept the resulting repair option.

This should leave you with all your applications, preferences, and data intact with fresh driver installs just on the changed hardware. It has worked for me several times in the past, but is a major YMMV operation.

I haven’t done this since a Canterwood board, so I have no experience in how XP’s native drivers deal with the more modern boards.

8

You should check the EULA for Media Center to be sure, but I don’t think you can replace the motherboard if you have an OEM license of a Windows OS. This page is as obfuscatory as can be, saying you can replace the motherboard but only if it’s a replacement from the computer manufacturer. Then again, you might just need to reactivate. The OEM license of Windows is cheaper, though, and is usually intended only for use on the computer it came with (as opposed to the retail versions).

If you’re buying a new version of Media Center, then never mind.

9

Microsoft XP OEM CD’s would not have a problem doing a new install on a different motherboard. A manufacturer’s XP reinstall CD most likely is modified to only install on the original motherboard. I think you could save money by changing a few options on your upgrade. Unless you run a large network server, you won’t see more than about 768MB of memory used. Try out 1Gig. There’s lots of people into computers willing to spend your money, to put together a system. Tell them what you want to use the system for, and they’ll tell you what to buy.

10

Thank you for all your help, guys, I’m relatively ‘good’ with computers but some things on the hardware side I’m put to shame with!

I think I’m going to have to buy my little fast hard drive and a new copy of the OS then straight away and get that up and running before I try and put anything else on there.

Can I move my existing hard drive over, as it is? Or do I need to format it? That’d be a bit annoying because I’d then still have to back everything up (the things that I dont normally have backed up.)

11

[rant] Is there some kind of SDMB rule were all PC-related threads must contain 80% FUD and misinformation? [/rant]

You almost certainly DO NOT need to reinstall XP. Although other posters are correct in that reinstalling is certainly the most stable way to go, it’s a time-consuming chore. Reinstalling XP only takes around an hour, but reinstalling all your apps, restoring your documents and data and tweaking your system just the way you had it before can easily take 12 hours, if not days. I avoid reinstalling whenever possible.

Chances are quite good that you can simply take the drive out of one system and put it in another and it will work just fine with no more interaction from you other than a reboot. The system I’m typing this up on right now had XP installed in late 2001, as soon as I got my free copy from Microsoft (ah, the joys of being a beta tester!). I have since upgraded from a P3-933 to a P4-3Ghz HT proc (which required swapping out the uniprocessor HAL for the SMP one). To do this, I simply moved the drive from my old system to the new system and booted into Windows. After XP detected a bunch of new hardware, I rebooted and was DONE with the migration, no fuss, no muss.

And I did the same thing just last week for a client; the retaining clip on one side of her heatsink had snapped, causing said heatsink to lean to the side instead of pressing snugly against the CPU - which caused the CPU to overheat and shut the computer down. She didn’t want to pay Dell $98 for the part for the older computer but also didn’t have the immediate funds available for a new computer… so for the interim I took the hard drive out of her system and put it into a much newer computer (her roommate’s, who’ll be out of town for the next six weeks). Again, XP booted to the dekstop, found a bunch of new hardware and asked me to reboot. Once the reboot was done, she was aces. And I’ve done “upgrades” and “fixes” like this a couple of dozen times and have only encountered a few issues, usually involving:

  1. MUCH older computers being upgraded to newer hardware. Going from a original Pentium processor (or maybe a Pentium II) to something brand new is sometimes problematic. This is pretty rare, as the number of Pentium Pro boxes running Windows 2000 is pretty small… but they are out there, especially in corporate settings. In any case, this doesn’t apply to you.

  2. Changing mass storage devices. Going from PATA to SATA (or even from onboard PATA to PCI PATA) can sometimes be problematic. You can almost always avoid this problem by switching to the standard IDE controller drivers in Device Mangler before doing the swap.

As I said, there’s a great chance that simply moving one drive to another system (or, in your case, the same (rebuilt) system) will result in a completely stable system without the hassle of a reinstall. However, if you’d like to bump those odds to 98% in your favor, check out this guide from the Ars Technica forums for a complete giude (complete with screen caps). The steps might seem daunting for someone not familiar with what Hat Monster is doing, but said steps are unambiguous and if you follow it to the letter, you’re almost assured of success.

As far as the EULA goes, OEM copies are bound to one box and one box only… as opposed to the retail (or FPP) version, which is indeed free to be moved from one box to another. OEM copies are cheaper than retail copies because Microsoft doesn’t support them directly. Dell gets Windows for cheap because they have their own tech support division that fields all the calls that MS would get if they sold Windows to you instead of Dell. Swapping a motherboard is not an EULA violation, contrary to what any web site might tell you. The main thing MS doesn’t want people doing is keeping the OS disc but selling the original computer (with XP already installed on it) so that they can install Windows on their new computer for “free” - this is why most OEMs give you a “restore CD” or some other image-based recovery system instead of an actual OS CD these days. So - upgrade away!

Also, FWIW Microsoft only retains the activation information for XP and Office for 120-180 days. If it’s been longer than that since you last activated your XP installation, you should be able to re-activate over the Internet without problems. I’ve done THAT for clients several times in the past too, always without issue.

12

Sure, if you’re reinstalling to a new drive, you can setup your old drive as an extra drive with all of your original data on it (it’ll get a separate drive letter). If it’s IDE I think you still need to do the master/slave thing, so you may have to setup your old drive as a slave (usually a jumper on the drive) if it’s on the same cable as the new one. Usually the two hard drives go on one cable (primary IDE), and the CD/DVD goes on the other (secondary IDE).

FWIW, I once swapped motherboard/CPU and XP wouldn’t boot so I had to reinstall it (maybe not “had to” but I couldn’t figure out any other way to get past the problem). I don’t think I changed chipsets either, both were P4, although the previous P4 was several years old and I also changed the RAM type (nobody seemed to make RDRAM motherboards anymore). My Linux partition booted with no problem at all on the new hardware.

You should at least try to boot your original drive before reinstalling. I don’t think there’s any way you’ll do any harm if it doesn’t boot.

13

Please excuse this hijack but as it has already been mentioned above I would like some clarification is possible.

I bought XP OEM for my wife’s computer when her hard drive went sick recently. I got a new drive and with it the aforementioned XP OEM. Unfortunately the computer has never really worked well since. I’m thinking now to upgrade it again fairly extensively but I was wondering if I would have trouble with authentication of that copy of XP.
Needless to say I would never have got a OEM version if I had realised it wasn’t allowed, but I saw nothing about that before buying my copy.

14

I was trying to clarify that a manufacturer’s restore CD is not a Microsoft OEM CD.
The Microsoft XP OEM install CD will have holograms all over it. The Microsoft XP Retail CD will have holograms all over it. Either of the Microsoft CDs can be used on a new computer. Don’t expect help from Microsoft if you use a OEM copy.

15

The OEM CD can be used on any 1 computer When the components change beyond some point microsoft has decided, it will ask you to reregister the OS. That is not a problem with them or the license. You can change a lot of components without the OS asking you to register again. Don’t register your computer until you make all your hardware changes. All the changes after registration will go towards the total allowed before asking you to register again. You have 30 days before you must register. The new update services require you to register before you can receive updates.

16

OK, thanks. It’s a genuine XP OEP Disk. With a full complement of holograms :slight_smile:
It’s virtually a new computer so I’ll almost certainly have to register again then.

17

From the OEM license for Windows XP Pro (and Windows Media Center, according to itself) :

I’m not saying you can’t physically do it, and I’m not even saying you shouldn’t. I’m just saying it’s likely a violation of the license.

If you have the current install, you can read your EULA in the path indicated in the quote (e.g. C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\eula.txt).

18

I built my own PC. I have XP HE, and swapped out the mobo. Went from some cheap Chinese crap to an Asus. I didn’t even change the processor, just popped it in the new mobo. Basically, that done blowed ever’thang up rrreal good as far as the software end of things goes. Had to reinstall XP. That fixed it, pretty much, except for the usual tweaking you have to do because of some-or-other bizarre hardware/software conflict requiring downloading a new patch or whatever.

19
      • You can remove a hard drive with XP installed and place it into a totally-different PC. The main thing I would do is to turn off the hardware video accelleration and turn the screen down to 640 x 480 and then delete the videocard drivers before shutting down for the final time, so that you know that Windows will be in software-video mode and will search for a videocard on its next boot. Windows will not boot if it cannot find a functioning video device, and it will not automatically search on its own if it “used to have” a functioning videocard installed. There is a thread on the Ars Technica forums about how to migrate an XP install from one PC to another without reinstalling the OS. It can be done.
  • As for “you can’t change the XP install from one PC to another”, that’s incorrect. Just call for the activation code instead of doing it online, and tell them the old PC got hit by lightning, and you had to replace the CPU and mobo. If all the other components are the same, they’ll accept it.
    ~
20

My friends are singing the praises of the dual-core athlon64 processors.

My question is this; do I need a motherboard that explicitly states it’s compatible with the dual-core for it to work? Or is it OK to get one that has the right socket?

The mobo that I could afford in conjnction with a dual-core processor is the Asus [urk=http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=12372979241&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3Jldmlld3M=&product_uid=82818]A8N-SLI Deluxe S939. Will this work with a dual-core processor?

Thankyou everyone for your comments so far, you’re really helping me out!

Harry