Motherboard/CPU questions and suggestions

The Game Room
1

Hi All,
I’d like to upgrade my motherboard and CPU next week and am looking for some advice and potential pitfalls in doing so. I’ve been slowly upgrading the hardware for the past couple years and it will continue to be a work in progress but at this time I think it’s best to essentially make this a brand new computer. My current setup is:

Case: MicroATX(older HP compaq)
PSU: 12V 2.2 550 Wts
CPU: Intel P4 3GHz
Mobo: i865P/PE/G/i848P
RAM: 2 GB
GPU: PNY NVIDIA GeForce 8400 512 MB GS(PCI)
Audio: external USB soundblaster
Display: Acer 19 in. Lcd
HDD: Standard 80 GB IDE
OS: XP Pro
extras:
USB 2.0 Adapter card(PCI)

I’ve never done this before and I didnt find the necessary information in all the previous “gaming machine building” threads which is why I created this one.

Also, I put it in the game room because I want it geared towards flight simulators even though it is my ‘everyday’ computer. My PS3 can satisfy my other gaming needs but I think PC is necessary for more realistic flight simulators.

So, obviously more than just the mobo/cpu can use upgrading and maybe I’ll upgrade the GPU or PSU in a month or two but for now I just have couple questions that I’m hoping will help me install the new hardware.

  1. Can I use my existing 80 GB IDE harddrive in a newer mobo or do most boards only accept sdata. Do I need an external adapter and even with that will the new mobo recognize the OS on the harddrive(this leads directly to my next question)?

  2. I’ve read conflicting articles on whether or not a fresh install of the OS is required so I’m wondering if any of you have done something similar with XP and what were your experiences?

I’m going to include a flash drive in my order in case I need to transfer files from my laptop to this pc should it be necessary to complete the process but is there anything else I’d be missing? Do I need a new cooling fan or is the stock one OK and although my PSU came with a bunch of sdata cables are there any that dont come with new boards but are necessary in order to get it working? I’d like to get everything I need in one order.

Finally, is there ratio between mobo and cpu that people tend to go by? For example, if I were to spend up to $300(which is pretty accurate but not set in stone) would most people recommend $150-CPU/$150 Mobo, or $200 CPU- $100 Mobo, etc? Should I just look at the combo deals?

Just for example, would the following mobo/cpu seem like a decent purchase?
Motherboard
NOTE: I advertantly bought an sdata dvd player and (2X) 2GB wintech DDR3 memory sticks recently so I need to make sure the new board will accept these(which it seems like most will).
CPU

My biggest concern, I guess, is that I’m overlooking some obvious pitfalls that everyone but a rookie like myself can cleary see.

I would appreciate any advice you may have or suggestions on hardware purchases in the near/far future.

Thanks for reading and happy gaming,
Van

2

The most obvious pitfall I see is that the CPU and motherboard don’t appear to be compatible. The motherboard is for Socket FM1 CPUs, and the CPU you have selected is a socket AM3 CPU.

3

Told ya I’m a rookie. :smack:

So, do most gamers choose a mobo and then a corresponding CPU or vice-versa? I feel like I’m in a ‘chicken or the egg’ scenario in that I’m not sure which is more important to pick 1st(if any).

Perhaps I should’ve phrased my question a bit simpler… something like the following:

Given the fact that all I really know about FSX is that it is very CPU intensive and appears to work better with less processors(Ie, dual core vs. quad core).

Does anyone have any suggestions on a mobo/cpu combination considering the current setup I listed above for around $300?

Thanks
Van

4

Not only are we past IDE and even SATA, but we are up to SATA III, so IDE is getting sacrificed in the space crunch. I know the flooding has made prices less than optimal, but I would make replacing that a priority.

Just install it fresh. But you’ll presumably need to replace XP anyway, if you intend on installing Microsoft Flight.

For your case or CPU?

No, no ratio. But in practice, your CPU should probably cost more than your motherboard. For example, a $200 CPU in a $100 MB will perform much better than a $100 CPU in a $200 MB.

5

I believe Microsoft Flight (the sequel to FSX) is due out next year, and I’ll wager it will take better advantage of multiple CPU cores than FSX.

Also, modern processors are much faster than previous generations. It doesn’t matter that FSX will only use 1 or two cores of your multi-core CPU. Those core should be plenty fast.

I’d say starting with a CPU in mind is probably what most people do. You check out the benchmarks and then you worry about a corresponding motherboard (with a matching socket), paying special attention to the chipset features it brings.

Intel is still the king of CPU performance, but the latest from AMD isn’t too shabby and it’s easier on the wallet.

6

Most will pick the CPU, then get the best motherboard in their price range for that CPU.

Having built and upgraded multiple systems (keeping old parts until they are falling apart, like my current optical disk drives), I would recommend not holding off on a power supply purchase. First, modern processors and motherboards (and most of all graphics cards) have greater power needs and older models might not have the necessary connectors (something I learned to my great annoyance last time I upgraded my video card). Second, many cases, especially a microATX HP model, will require you to take out everything in order to put in a new PSU. Better to attend to it when you are putting it together for the first time.

I find micro-ATX cases run warmer because more stuff is stacked closer together, but be wary that if you get an after-market cooler that it will fit in your case.

7

Thank you for the information, everyone… it is greatly appreciated.

Regarding the cooling fan, I meant for the CPU as in previous thread there was a brief discussion regarding liquid cooling and air cooling and was not sure if CPU’s come with some sort of heat sink or if that is a completely separate component that must be purchased on it’s own.

The power supply is fairly new and has many available connections so unless it’s an issue with 550 Wts not being enough for a more current mobo/CPU I’d really rather hold off on that.

The number of cores statement makes great sense to me so I’m glad I don’t have to worry about the number or processors.

Thanks again for the info and I’m going to start pricing CPU’s and then look at mobos.

8

Ah, okay. A retail boxed CPU comes with a fan/heatsink, even the thermal pad. They are fine if you are not overclocking. It’s really mostly overclockers that need bigger or liquid cooling.

9

Absolutely no intentions of overclocking at this point…so…

Considering my 1st 2 links were for 2 incompatible parts would any of you mind letting me know if the following would be compatible with each other?

CPU - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT55TFBGRBOX
Mobo - ASUS M4A88T-M AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (Copied from Storage Specs: SATA 3Gb/s)
Harddrive - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

The numbers seem to match to me but would certainly appreciate an experienced set of eyes to confirm.
This package also includes a new harddrive that will replace my current IDE dinosaur.

As always, It is much appreciated.

10

Looks like you’ve chosen compatible components, so everything you’ve listed will work together just fine. The CPU seems to be a good mix of performance and price: PassMark - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T - Price performance comparison

For the hard drive, I noticed that Newegg has another caviar blue with twice the capacity for just $10 more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136098 Might be worth spending a little more to get more out of your system. Poke around enough and you might find an even better deal. :smiley:

The mobo should be fine and it looks like it even has a PATA connector, which may allow you to access your old HD too.

One thing I haven’t seen you mention or consider is RAM. You’ll likely need a different type of RAM than what you currently have. Something like this would work, but basically any DDR3 1333/1066 RAM will do: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB 240-Pin SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory - Newegg.com

11

Your current computer is ancient. Pentium 4 3ghz is 2004? technology. We’ve gone through 3 or 4 new types of ram since then. It’s not worth trying to upgrade this current computer - anything you keep is likely to hold you back and piss you off. Nothing from that system is going to be useful - obviously you can keep your monitor/keyboard/mouse/etc. but all of the internals are useless except perhaps the PSU which you say is newer. How much newer? A PSU made in 2004 wouldn’t even have the right connectors to power a modern motherboard.

What you should do is actually build a brand new computer. It sounds like you’re most of the way there - no reason to hold yourself back by trying to hang onto any ancient hardware.

You might as well build a modern low end computer that can crush your PS3’s performance anyway.

Again, I wouldn’t advise this. Just wait until you have a few hundred bucks saved up and make an entirely new system.

You’ll be able to find motherboards with an IDE port, but you’ll have to make sure it has one. It’s becoming very much an optional feature, since no one runs PATA hard drives and even PATA optical drives are becoming rare.

If you go ahead with this plan, you will definitely want a fresh OS install.

A retail CPU will come with an adequate heatsink. Flash drives are pretty much self contained plug and play. Whatever wires you need should come with whatever you’re buying.

You can get pretty barebones decent motherboards for $75 if you pick the right model. But I’d be careful going that low. You can get ones in that price range that are garbage too. If you’re not overclocking, you’ll want your CPU to be more expensive than your motherboard. Overclocking can change the value chart pretty substantially though - I once bought a $70 CPU that ran 50% faster than intel’s ridiculously overpriced $1000 extreme edition chips after overclocking.

Is there some reason you need a micro-ATX? I mean, I realize you have a micro-ATX case now, but like I said, chuck out everything you have and start new. You can get decent ATX mid-size cases for $40 and they give you plenty of room to work with, and then you won’t need to squeeze in a micro-ATX motherboard.

That board also appears to have no PATA IDE connector. I would guess that most micro-ATX boards won’t, since those are cramped for space and quicker to throw away old ports that no one is using anymore.

The CPU is also overkill. If you’re willing to spend $200 on a CPU, you should get an intel 2500k. If you’re going the AMD route, you can get a pretty good CPU for $100 and use the rest of the money to buy a new case power supply (if needed). You don’t need a $200 CPU for good performance. But if you are going that route, you can get a 2500k, $120 motherboard, $20 cooler (CM hyper 212+), and get a massive free increase in performance by overclocking. And it’s simple. My 2500k/$150 MB combination literally just needs me to click “4.6ghz preset” to take the CPU from 3.2 to 4.6 ghz. Anything beyond that takes some work.

As mentioned, that motherboard was designed for the AMD CPU/GPU hybrid chips and not the AM3+. The socket types on the CPU and MB have to match.

Again, the best thing you can do is save up for a bit and just build a new system. I can recommend specific hardware for you for a budget if you want. As ancient as your system is, Case/CPU/MB/RAM/PSU should all come at once.

If your PSU really is modern and capable, and you already have ram, I’d still get a new case that allowed you to have a bigger motherboard and more room to work with and be higher quality. The GPU and hard drives are modular enough that you can upgrade them later, but the parts I listed I’d consider essential for a new system.

12

Thanks again, everyone for all your advice. It definitely helped me buy with confidence.

Apex - thanks for the heads up regarding the HD… 10 bucks for 160 GB was certainly an easy choice.

SB - Thank you for taking the time to write up such detailed advice.

Other than the MB/CPU/CASE nothing in this computer is stock. The PSU and GPU are about a 1 1/2 yrs old at most. I know 512 MB graphics isn’t great but I was limited to PCI and this was about all that was available(w/in my price range anyway).

The PSU has IDE connectors and SDATA connectors so I’m pretty confident that it will satisfy my needs for a while even though it, as well as the GPU, can now go on the top of ‘next component to upgrade’ list. I also ordered (2X) 2 GB DDR3 RAM to go with the (2X) 2 GB that I already purchased last week.

I’m going to keep the micro case as it really doesn’t seem that hard to work in and around and hopefully I wont regret it in the long run.

So, just to recap after placing my order at NewEgg… my new setup will be:

Case: MicroATX
PSU: 12V 2.2 550 Wts
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Processor
MB: ASUS M4A88T-M AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
RAM: (4X) 2GB DDR3
GPU: PNY NVIDIA GeForce 8400 512 MB GS(PCI)
Audio: external USB soundblaster
Display: Acer 19 in. Lcd
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
HDD2: Standard 80 GB IDE
OS: XP Pro
Thank you again, everyone, for helping explain things and offering up great advice.

Van

13

Looks good, except I don’t know how many games you’ll be able to run on that old video card, especially with it running through PCI and not PCI-e. You may find yourself upgrading that one sooner than you think!

14

The other concern is heat. I don’t know what case you have specifically, but I’m guessing it’s one of those crappy little cases that the big manufacturers use that’s adequate for their original use but doesn’t have much room for upgrades.

It probably has… 1 80mm exhaust fan, and that’s about it, right? That works for what was originally designed to be a mid-range CPU and probably no GPU at all. You’re going to be putting a 6 core monster CPU in there and eventually a real graphics card. That’s going to be a much bigger heat load than the case was originally designed for… again, probably. Maybe it’s a well-designed small case for all I know.

Components are pretty tolerant of heat and it may well not be a problem, but I’d be leery about packing that stuff into a micro-ATX case.

And you don’t have to spend much for an upgrade. Something like this or this is under $50 shipped.

You’d be happy with what you’re getting, but the CPU choice is less than optimal. AMD right now is really best if you want to save some money and get a $100 CPU. Once you’re paying $200+ for a cpu, you’re better off going with intel.

If you were going to stick with AMD, I would recommend the 975 x4 instead. It has two less cores, but it has 800 mhz more stock speed - which you’re more likely to notice because few programs will take advantage of 6 cores, but an extra 800mhz is always useful. It’s also $40 cheaper, which is almost the cost of a new case.

You’re also going to want Windows 7. It’s just really great and better than XP. I realize it’s pretty cost prohibitive, so consider your other options for getting it.

It also wouldn’t surprise me if Microsoft Flight requires DX10 or better, because it’s a PC exclusive made by a company that wants to promote new graphics technology, and excluding support for DX9 really helps improve the way games run. You won’t be able to run it on XP if that’s the case.

15

If he’s not going to overclock and will get memory to match the JDEC standards the board will recognize, you can get away with a pretty basic board. The number one reason for getting a better m/b is so you have headroom to oc. I’m sure they’re also more durable, but not always. Back in the 775 days, I got a few high end gigabyte boards that all burnt out on me. Nothing we say will be 100%, but I’ve gotten a lot of good boards that were cheap and basic and ran like a champ. On the low end, I like the ECS boards. On the high end, it’s Asus of course.

Something worth trying is mosey on over to the VMWare site and get the VMWare converter. This a free utility that will clone your current system to a virtual disk that you can later run under VMPlayer on the new system. Now that’s an area where the multi core m/b’s shine - virtualization. You probably won’t want to run more than one VM at a time with only 4 gig of memory, but one should be very doable. This way you preserve your existing setup and have a backup all in one.