Ok, I have a P3-600 MHz, and I’ve decided, with CPU prices being so cheap these days, to upgrade. Originally I was looking to get a 1ghz P3 (because I already have the mobo & they are dirt-cheap), as I’ve seen them on sale for roughly $120 or so. I checked my motherboard on the Dell site, and it can only accommodate up to 850 MHz, so scrap that.
I’m going to take the big leap and get something real fast. I’ve heard great things about AMD, and looking at the Athlons they are priced great. I’m thinking a 2.0 GHz, which is about $200 bucks is the way to go. Now I noticed that anything faster then 1.5 is referred to as an Athlon XP, and they seem to be optimized for Win XP. I am currently running Win 98 2nd edition, and due to some hardware & software legacy, I am very leery to upgrade. I am happy with 98, my box runs fine, so I will keep the Os how it is. Below is a quick summary of my system.
Dell XPS T600R
Win 98 2nd edition.
384 Meg ram (128 & 256)
Nvidia TNT2 video card (agp I believe)
Creative Labs CD burner
Creative Labs SoundBlaster
Lexicon core 2 soundcard (the legacy card, made for 95 or 98, pci I think)
Ethernet card
Scsi card for a scanner.
Now with the new AMD I’ll need a new motherboard, and I’ll most likely get a new case as well.
Questions -
What would be the best AMD be for me (no more then $250)
Will I get good performance with an Athlon XP, which is optimized for XP, running 98?
Would I be better off with a Pentium? (Try and keep to the facts please)
Are there any other pitfalls I should be aware of when replacing CPU and motherboard?
I was going to look up some benchmarks, but it might help if I knew what chip to look up.
Just my opinion but if your sticking with the current generation of processors (Pentium 4 & Athlon XP) then a few hundred Mhz isn’t going to make that much of a difference. Go with what you feel comfortable spending.
I believe that the XP processors are like the old MMX processors when they came out. They have certain instructions specifically for the program or OS utilizing them to help performance. You may not do as well as with XP but it will still be a big performance boost.
I read in a PC Magazine article just last week. ‘If there were really any compatibility issues with AMD, Intel would be playing it up and in reality they’re not saying a word’. I have an AMD and I can’t say I’ve had any compatibility issues.
I recently swapped the motherboard and power supply in my PC and kept the CPU, memory, disk drives, etc… It was a learning experience. Have you ever installed an OS from scratch? You have that plus flashing the BIOS on a new motherboard. I’m comfortable swapping drives and cards but I had to prepare to swap my CPU. The new AMD chips (and most probably Intel) run pretty hot and you can’t just clip on the heat sink. There has to be some kind of thermal transfer material in between. You can use a thermal pad, the least efficient but the easiest and least messy. There’s thermal grease, what I used, and what AMD calls ‘phase-change material’ - basically a one time use thermal grease. I think I still have the link to the instructions somewhere or you could just look for the white paper at the AMD website on how to install a heat sink.
I don’t want to make too much of a blanket statement but I can’t think of anything that would run on 98 that wouldn’t run on XP. XP (Pro at least and I’m pretty sure the Home version) has compatibility modes where you can run a program in 95, 98/Me, NT SP5.0, or 2000 mode. I don’t think you have to worry about compatibility from 98 to XP.
Computers have pretty much become commodities. IOW there is little difference between Intel and AMD. Just get the fastest CPU/motherboard you can afford.
The XP suffix on Athlon CPUs doesn’t mean anything. Its just a marketing ploy.
The last Intel CPU I had was my Gateway (2000) 486! There’s nothing wrong with Intels, but there’s no compatibility issues with AMDs either.
As far as motherboards go, the only thing that has advanced is RAM. New motherboards can use DDR and/or Rambus memory, but they’re usually backwards compatible with the older types.
Unless you’re planning on downloading the pre-alpha Cannibal Fragfest XI demo and you want those extra 9¾ fps, don’t obsess over benchmarks.
You will get more for your money by using an AMD CPU. There is no relation to XP in AMD and MS. Use your money for DDR RAM and a nice fast 7200 RPM hard disk instead of the latest AMD XP. You can get an XP 2000 or 1.67 GHz for less than a 100.00 which should be more than enough. Windows XP is not to bad though I am pleased with the performance.
Another thing I just thought I’d stick in here. Recently Cnet did a test on 5400?rpm and 7200 rpm HD and they found no noticable difference (there was some difference between that and the 10,000 SCSI drive but not enough to justify the price).
Myself? I would go for the 7200 because I think it’s faster.
While Athlon XP’s have nothing to do with Windows XP, I heard that Windows XP has been optimised to run on Athlon XP’s. Not sure if that is the case, take it with a grain of salt.
Personally, I would save my money and do nothing until you are ready for another computer (maybe a year).
You may have some problems that I can see.
Dell may not be using a standard ATX size (common among big OEMs) therefor no other Motherboard but another Dell may fit. One way around this is to change your case as well.
You will not only be replacing your motherboard, your CPU and your memory but you will also be replacing your power supply as well. None of these are big tasks, but something you should be aware of.
XP (If you ever go that way) is a nice operating system but needs clock speed and lots of memory to run well. I like it much better than Win98SE.
I don’t know how comfortable you are working on the internals of your computer.
I have built a few hundred computers in the last few years so I comfortable giving advise on this.
Intel also makes similar claims. XP is in reference to the “Palimino” (and later) die that contained a larger and higher clock speed L2 than previous chips.
I’d definately go with the Athlon XP 2000+. They’re very inexpensive, and very fast. You’ll need a new motherboard, case with power supply, RAM, and any ISA cards (the ones that go in the black slots) must be replaced with PCI cards. My suggestion is to wait a little while, then get a motherboard based on the new nVidia nForce2 chipset. You can get one with onboard video, audio, and LAN. The onboard video, audio, and LAN would all be better than what you have now. The only thing you’d need would be a case with a good power supply (at least 350W of power) and good cooling ability, two 256MB sticks of DDR333 (PC2700) RAM, and an Athlon XP 2000+. You can see a good selection of available components at www.newegg.com.
Depends… If you’re willing to spend a few hours reading about PC technology on the web and learn about FSB, multipliers, PCI/AGP dividers etc you can master the great skill of overclocking (it really isn’t hard, and great fun!). The AMDs are nice CPU’s but don’t overclock much. The northwood core P4’s overclock a lot. I’m running a P4 1.8a at 2.3 GHz, and it’s not the CPU holding me back, it’s the memory. The CPU has done 2.53 GHz without a hickup.
So I would say that if you are not comfortable overclocking, the AMDs are your best value.
If you are willing to experiment and spend a few hours learning the technology, the P4 Northwood is a much better value.
But how much were you wanting to spend on the whole system? Was that the figure?
I’ve been getting machines custome built for my office that just scorch through big project recompiles.
Specs -
Intel P4 2.4
Intel Motherboard with 845 chipset (built in sound, video, and nic).
1GB DDR
80GB 7200 rpm drive
CD/CDR/DVD drive
USB 2.0
The onboard video is 64MB 4x AGP. It is not as fast as the GeForce 4 ti in my home machine, but probably somewhere between a GeForce 2 and 3. Easily does 1600x1200x32b. NIC is the same an Intel Pro 10/100 (very nice NIC). The sound is based on a Sound Max chipset.
Getting the whole system built for about a grand. The full Gig of DDR is most of what is keeping the price up that high. The whole thing is in an excelent case.
btw… Really look at going with XP pro. It has several things going for it.
It boots/reboots very quickly (just seconds)
The ability to switch users in a home environment without logging the current user off or closing their apps in really convenient.
It is quick. Very noticable speed improvement. With identically configured machines, XP will run quite a bit faster than another machine running NT or 2000. XP compared to the other OS’s seems about like a 10% jump in clock rate on the CPU.
All the help is very appreciated guys (and gals). Answers sometimes spawn more questions.
Looks like I’ll be checking out an Athlon XP2000+. Is it basically out of the box, onto the mobo, or will I have to do those steps Tiglon mentioned? How hard is flashing the bios, applying the thermal transfer, etc? I don’t know where my win 98 disk is, will that be a problem? Will I need it for drivers?
For memory, whats the difference between the double data rate, and the rambus? Which one would be preferential.
Lastly, in getting my new case, I was mulling one with the side window, just because that would be pretty cool. Are those things emi shielded? Do they need to be? I would imagine direct sunlight would be bad, but what about everyday room daylight?
World Eater, I just went through what you’re contemplating. I replaced my Dell T400 with an AMD XP2000+. I intended to merely upgrade it with a new MB and PSU for the AMD processor, but Dell uses non-standard, proprietary components, so I had to go with a new case, etc.
I bought a MB/processor combo. A small premium over buying the two separately, but one less step to worry about. You will still need to add thermal paste to the top of the processor (or the bottom of the HSF) before installing the HSF. It’s not hard, just don’t use too much. I think a pea-sized dab (around 3/16"-1/4") ought to do it. AMD processors are power hungry, so make sure you get a 300W or better PSU. AMD lists approved PSUs (and MBs) on their website. Rambus memory is really more of an Intel thing than AMD. Most if not all AMD MBs support DDR memory. DDR is less expensive, too, so that’s in AMD’s favor.
I can’t help on the window cases. But I think the effect is lost unless you’re going to be adding some sort of lighting to the inside of the case.
That’s exactly what I intend to do Dirtz. Btw how’s it running?
Lets recap -
I’m going with AMX XP2000+, a new mobo, DDR memory, a new case and a new power supply.
A few last questions. Will Sdram work in a mobo with ddr? (I’m aware it wouldn’t take advantage of it), or will my old mem be useless?
I had some overheating problems, because my box has a zillion cards and no airflow. I intend to add a fan or two extra, what watt power supply would be necessary? 350, 400, 450?
In regards to the cases, I’m not sure what I’ll get, but if I can get something pimp for a good price, I would go with that instead of plain vanilla. I would love a transparent one or one with a window, but emi shielding and protecting the guts from any type of light exposure takes precedence. Any insight on that?
Thanks we’re almost done here.
tiglon1 seems to be implying that a new MB+CPU means you have to do a “BIOS flash” and an OS install from scratch. Neither is at all related to such an upgrade. You only have to do a BIOS upgrade if you are unhappy with the old one and there is a new one available that fixes what you are unhappy about. That can be done at any time. I doubt if even 5% of computers ever get a BIOS upgrade.
SDRAM will not work on a motherboard designed for DDR RAM. SDRAM has a different form factor and won’t even plug into the DDR RAM motherboard. Motherboards exist that can accept both, but not (IIRC) at the same time.
You do realize you’re talking now about spending around $300-350? Skimping by buying generic parts for any of the components you’re talking about is almost guaranteed to give you headaches down the line. Motherboard, memory and power supply in particular.
For RAM, buy Crucial. It’s competitive on price and is high quality. For case and power supply, I’d get something in the Antec Performance Plus line like the 660AMG (around $110). The cases are easy to work with and have good power supplies.
I’d get an AMD XP2100+ because it’s their fastest processor under $100… about $15 more than the XP2000+. But the XP2000+ is fine and dandy. Overclocking at this time is completely pointless unless you find it entertaining.
You might need a new soundcard. Soundblasters are known to not play well with AMD motherboard chipsets. It might work, but be prepared for it not to. Many AMD mobos now come with onboard sound anyway, so you can use that until you get the cash together for a new sound card. Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, if you’re wondering.
If you have never installed an AMD processor before, it’s very possible you will break it or burn it up the first time you try and have to buy another one. It’s easy to crack the core trying to seat the processor on the mobo, and it’s easy to burn it up if you haven’t attached the heatsink properly or applied the thermal interface well. I’m not trying to scare you… just be aware that it happens, even to people who have home built many AMD systems.
FTG, will I need to reinstall the OS, or when I boot it up (it will be using the same C drive), will it detect new hardware and make adjustments accordingly?
Hazel, thanks for the warning. Although I’ve never done it before, I feel quite comfortable with this undertaking. I’ve installed many a card on my machine over the years, networked all the house computers, and most recently set up my router, giving all the computers Internet access. I never did any of those before and was lucky to have perfect results. I’m certainly not a technical person, but I expect nothing less of myself this time around. As far as money goes, I expect to pay $400 to $500 for everything, and more if necessary. Yes I could buy another computer, but I already have 2, and I would rather upgrade then have 3 boxes half cannibalized sitting on my desk. Also I enjoy reading specs, doing it myself, and learning about how my machine works inside and out. Again, thanks for the advice, and I’ll make sure I’m extra careful handling the CPU.
