Hi all; with the release of Empire I thought I’d upgrade the old girl to be more in this century. Basically I want a decent gaming rig (that can run Empire Total War, specifically!), nothing too fancy.
Here’s my machine as it stands at the moment:
The motherboard is one of these.
My processor is an AMD Sempron 3500+ ~ 2.00Ghz.
1024 DDR2 RAM.
The GPU is a GeForce 9500 GT, 512MB.
I’m running XP SP3.
My graphics card is the odd one out there because the old one (a GeForce 6600) blew up and needed to be replaced, so that’s a fairly recent addition and can stay. My single core processor these days is a dinosaur, so I want to upgrade that (AM2 socket, so I’m limited to AMD Athlon™ 64FX / 64X2 / 64 & Sempron processors, according to the motherboard’s spec page). Might as well stick another gig of DDR2 RAM in there whilst I’m at it. My sound card could do with replacing too; the old one’s headphone jack has snapped off so I have to angle the headphone into it precisely, or the output sounds like it’s underwater.
I want to do this as cheaply as possible, so what would you guys recommend?
I also want to save a few quid by buying the components and putting them in myself, but I’ve absolutely no experience in installing new processors; any advice?
You’ve pretty much covered all the bases except going for 4 GB (2x 2 GB, not 4x 1 GB), not 2 GB. If you can snag a copy of the 64 bit version of the preview of Windows 7, you might try 8 GB. Just get the fastest CPU that you can afford and that the motherboard supports - check if a BIOS upgrade is needed, though. Sound cards are dirt cheap. For video, I suggest the ATI / AMD 4850.
In purchase order, I’d go for the video card, then 4 GB memory, then the CPU, then the other 4 GB memory.
The computer was built about 2 years ago, so I stuck in 1 gig of DDR2 to save cash. Would it be wise to stick in another 2 gig of DDR2 instead of 1, then? I don’t really fancy just chucking out a gig and replacing it with 2 x 2 GB. My max bandwith (according to CPU-Z) is PC2-4300 (266 Mhz). I’m not 100% sure what this means - I can only have other PC2-4300 DDR2? The only ones I can find are 533 Mhz - is my current RAM hamstringing the upgrade?
Windows 7 is pretty much out of the question - too dear! I’m trying to keep on the shy side of one hundred squid.
At the moment I’m looking at a nice AMD 64X2 running at 3.00 Ghz (or possibly 2.7 GHz) to replace my Sempron. Looking at the support list (which also shows if a BIOS upgrade is needed ) is alarming though - the processor (64 X2 6000+) I’m looking at has the model number ADX6000CZBOX; which I can’t find. Am I reading the numbers wrong or something?
Windows 7 is free for the download at the moment. Unless MS have stopped the preview program.
The Radeon 4850 should set you back £115 but they’re due to come down in price presently if the press is to be believed. The next one down, the Radeon 4670, is £55 or so.
With regard to the RAM, that’s the bandwidth of your current memory; you can safely use faster memory. Go to Crucial’s website and run their memory analyser. I’m guessing you’ve got 2x 512 MB modules. Adding 2x 2 GB will boost you to 5 GB; adding 2x 1 GB will boost you to 3 GB. But I’d be very wary about mixing speeds, so better to have it all identical.
As for the CPU, if it’s not listed as compatible, don’t try it unless your supplier has a decent returns policy.
Thanks for the help, Quartz. Since I have only 1 gig of RAM at the mo’, would you recommend chucking that (which I’m not keen on, don’t like chucking away potentially useful stuff) and instead getting 2 x 2 gig sticks instead (or just one), for 4 gig (or 2) altogether? I initially only thought of putting another 1 gig in, but if there’s a more efficient way I’m open to it. I’m also a bit confused as to the compatibility issue; can I just stick any DD2 RAM alongside it or does it have to fit in with this PC2-4300 business?
Here’s my MB’s specs regarding the RAM;
Basically I just want to meet these requirements and then some;
My GeForce 9500 GT is pretty much brand new and runs at 512MB, which is good enough for me.
The processor thing is giving me a headache. None of the model numbers of processors that should run with the motherboard fine match up with the numbers on the MB’s website. The guys who I bought the initial components off 2 years ago are still knocking about, I’ll ask them what’s the crack.
I’m not keen on changing the OS at all; sounds like way too much hassle.
Thanks for the info on the RAM, very interesting. My 9500GT may be a slight bottleneck, but my financial situation is such that I can’t really afford to replace it; the CPU and RAM seemed like more pressing priorities and where the money should be spent.
Personally, I’d recommend to scrap the 1G and go with a 2X2GB kit - you can get some good DDR2 800 for $40-50.
If it’s an AM2, it should support all current AM2 processors - you won’t be able to go with a Phenom or Kuma core (AM2+) without issues, but all other AM2 CPUs should work fine. One caveat - your motherboard may need a BIOS update to fully recognize newer model numbers. But all the major BIOS makers (including AMI have) released updates addressing this issue.
I just upgraded from an X2 4800+ to a 5600+ and saw a hefty boost in performance, so you’ll likely see a huge increase just going up to the mid-level X2 5000+ or above, which run about $50. Unless you’re looking to push sick overclocks, don’t go for the Black Editions, or else you’ll have to buy a heatsink as well since the Blacks are packaged barebones.
One word of advice on replacing a processor - run your PC for an hour or so, then let cool for a couple minutes so as to soften the thermal paste before removing the old heatsink. If you don’t, the thermal paste will often bond so tightly that you may rip the processor right out of the ZIF socket trying to pry off the heatsink. Even if you don’t plan on re-using the old CPU, if you break off a pin in the ZIF, you’re screwed.
And finally, if you can afford at all to replace the video card, I would recommend it. The 9500GT uses a 128-bit memory bus (and often have slower GDDR2 RAM), which could be a bottleneck for a high-object-count game like Empire. I just got an ATI 4830 that blows away my old 1950XT, for around $90 on sale. It may seem like a lot, but it would be worth it.
If it’s not possible to drop $200 on the total upgrade (doesn’t everyone have piles of cash sitting around these days? :)) the CPU and RAM upgrades will give you the most noticeable boost for around the same price combined, so go for that first.
Cheers for the advice, Crown Prince of Irony, particularly regarding the processor. If I understand you correctly (I’m pretty new at replacing processors), I run the PC for an hour, upgrade the BIOS if necessary (my MB’s website has a list, so that shouldn’t be a problem), then carefully take out the old processor (is the heat sink/thermal paste integrated? My old one is a Sempron 3500) and stick the new one in?
I’m on quite a tight budget (no more than 100 squid), so buying a decent processor and 2x2Gb RAM might be prohibitively expensive; would you recommend instead ditching the 1 gig I have now and replacing it with a 2 gig rather than just sticking another 1 gig in there for the same ends?
I believe that if you buy a retail (not OEM) processor it will come with stock thermal compound already applied. I’ve bought 2 processors in the last two years, one AMD and one Intel. Both came like this.
You’ll want to make sure you remove all the residual thermal compound from the slot after you remove the old CPU. Gently scrape any residual off with a razor.
The thing with thermal paste is that less is more. You don’t want a “sandwich” of slot-paste-cpu core, you want the bare minimum that just barely fills in the micro valleys on the CPU core. FWIW, I’ve never done the “run the PC for an hour to soften the old paste” - I took out a 3 year-old CPU no problem. I doubt it would hurt to run the CPU for an hour, I just haven’t seen it necessary.
I can recommend Newegg - I’ve had good customer service with them. The first AMD processor I bought from them ended up not really being supported by my mobo (BIOS update said it was, but I got too many crashes). I returned a CPU with the thermal paste smeared all over and the box ripped, they didn’t even ask any questions and I got a full refund.
A small nitpick: I recently upgraded my single-core 3800+ CPU to a Black Edition X4, and it came with a heat sink. (It also was the cheapest X4 at Newegg–cheaper than half the X3s.) “Retail” processors include a heat sink, “OEM” don’t.
On preview: What GameHat said. (I’ve never seen so much paste used that it squeezed out onto the socket, though.)
Essentially, yes, although you should be able to upgrade the CPU and then do the BIOS upgrade if necessary - worst-case scenario with AM2 boards is that it recognizes a different processor than is installed and underclocks it, but most likely you won’t even have to futz around with the BIOS upgrade at all. I would be highly surprised if an AMI BIOS had problems with newer AM2 processors.
The reason I recommend running the PC for a while before attempting to remove the heatsink is that the thermal paste can act like adhesive, sticking the heatsink to the CPU when cold, but will loosen when warm. I have pulled on a stuck heatsink so hard the CPU came loose from the ZIF clamp - this has happened twice. Once, it left a pin behind, and I had to scrap the motherboard because it jammed up the ZIF clamp.
Depending on how hot your current CPU runs, you may or may not need to let it sit a couple minutes. With an AM2 Sempron, you can probably get straight to work right after shutting down, but more powerful CPUs can reach temps of 150 F on stock heatsinks.
Anyway, after you’ve shut down, unclamp the heatsink and pull it off as gently as possible. If the heatsink doesn’t come straight off with minimal upward pressure, twist it it gently back and forth to loosen the thermal paste until the heatsink slides back and forth quite easily. Then you should be able to pull it off without much worry.
Then you remove the old CPU, first lifting the ZIF lever. Then seat the new CPU, latch the ZIF lever, and seat the heatsink, which should have preapplied thermal paste. Clamp down the heatsink, and Bob’s your uncle.
Before you install the new one, check the processor for bent pins first (an increasingly common problem with AMD CPUs, in my experience) - if you have a pin slightly bent, trying to seat the CPU will finish the job and give you a dual-core paperweight. If you do have a bent pin, you can usually either send it back to the reseller, or if you’re adventurous and have a steady hand, bend it back with a toothpick.
First off, if you shop wisely, you should be able to find a decent processor and at least 2 GB RAM for well under 100, possibly with a sound card as well.* I second GameHat’s recommendation of Newegg.com - they rarely charge shipping on CPUs and you can often find free shipping deals on RAM and other parts too.
Regarding the specific RAM upgrade path: You mention upthread that you’re running PC2-4300, which translates to DDR2 533. With most chipsets (I’m pretty sure yours included) all RAM will be limited to running only as fast as the slowest rated stick. Which means whatever you add will only be running 66% as fast if you keep the existing RAM. Also, if you have one stick, and add two more, the RAM will operate in single-channel rather than dual-channel mode.
Depending on the application, the additional RAM may offset the speed/channel difference. Since DDR2800 is so cheap these days, there’s no reason not to get a 2GB dual-channel (1GBX2) set for around $25, and test whether 3GB running in single channel at 533Mhz is as quick as 2GB running in dual channel at 800.
*Re: needing a new soundcard - does your PC speaker set have a headphone jack? I have a logitech set that does, and I use it exclusively when I plug in my headphones. If it’s just the headphone jack that’s broken, this might be a workaround.
Very good to know - AMD used to ship their Black editions without heatsinks, even though they were labeled “retail”. Did yours come with a heatpipe heatsink, or just the aluminum slab?
Do you use aftermarket heatsinks/paste? The couple times I’ve used an aftermarket cooler and ArcticSilver paste, I’ve had no problems removing the heatsink from the CPU - came off slicker than grease. But with the preapplied thermal paste on the AMD stock heatsink, I’ve always had problems - per my last post, I’ve completely ripped the CPU out of the socket twice. The 3 or 4 upgrades I’ve had since then, I’ve run my pc’s a while before upgrading and still have to wiggle the heatsink a little to loosen the paste - I swear they’re using Gorilla Glue or some sh*t.
I should just go with a solid aftermarket cooler, since it looks like AMD will keep the same heatsink bracket design for the next couple sockets, but I’ve gotten lazy as we’ve had more kids and life has gotten crazier, so I just use what AMD throws in the box.
Heatpipes, sheet-metal fins, and a fan. I think it had a copper base, but I didn’t look at it for long–I think I had it up and running within an hour of getting home from work on the day it arrived.
I’ve ordered a gig more RAM which should be compatible with my old, and a 2.7 Ghz 7750 which should work with with my AM2 socket (if it doesn’t, I’ll just switch it for one that does).
Not for my last two CPUs. I did back on my beloved Athlon T-Bird, but come to think of it I don’t think I ever removed that CPU. Just swapped out the entire mobo.
Right, got some more compatible RAM and have plumped for the AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ processor, since it’s definitely listed on my motherboard’s supported CPU list.
Just wanna check I’ve got the procedure right before I take the old girl apart;
Download new BIOS;
“Unzip and save all files to the same directory of any storage location accessible by the host system. And you should see AFUWIN.EXE, UCORESYS.SYS, UCOREVXD and UCOREW64.SYS.” - what does ‘any storage location accessible by the host system’ mean? Can I just stick it on the desktop or My Documents?
Close all programs, upgrade the BIOS.
Restart the compy, F2, in exit menu select “Load Default Settings”, then “Exit Saving Changes”, then exit.
Compy loads up with new BIOS; shut it down straight away.
Take out the old CPU, insert the new CPU and heatsink. And my new RAM while I’m at it.
Start the compy up, install anything that comes with my new gear.
My google-fu is letting me down here, probably due to the vast combinations of motherboard and CPUs involved; am I on the right track? I wanna take the old one out ASAP but have no real clue if this is the right way of doing it, particularly in regard to the BIOS update (motherboard website says the 5600 needs a BIOS update, but is the method above right?).
Yes. Update the BIOS before installing the new CPU. It’s generally a better idea to install the BIOS from a boot floppy or USB stick than submit to the vagaries of Windows.
