A novice builds a computer

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
#1

My supplemental loan for the year FINALLY came in, so I’ve decided that an excellent graduation present to myself would be a new computer. I have either boosted my confidence or abandoned my senses, because I have decided to forego the retailers and build the damn thing myself.

After some poking around at places like Ars Technica and motherboards.org, I have decided to go with the Athlon XP 1800+ CPU. Beyond that, I’m fairly up in the air. I’ll be using it to do some web design, moderate gaming, lots of CD burning, and your usual web browsing and word processing. I’m not worried about ending up with more computer than I need–my inner geek is calling to me.

Any recommendations for components (starting with a cool case), suggested dealers, and general advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m sure I’ll be begging for more specific advice when the time comes.

Dr. J

#2

As I said, I will be using this machine to do a lot of CD burning. (Legal stuff, believe it or not.) It may eventually behoove me to add another hard drive to the system. Would it thus behoove me to get a RAID motherboard? I have only the most basic understanding of what RAID does, but I know it comes into play when you have >1 hard drive.

Dr. J

#3

Cases are kinda interchangeable, so pick one that you think looks cool. You’re gonna need a hard drive, memory, a floppy drive, a CD drive, a video card, a sound card, a modem (or network card), a lot of tools, good fine motor skills, and a lot of patience. Make sure to read your motherboard manual to find out what kind of memory is right for your board, or else you’ll spend money on memory that doesn’t fit. It might not hurt to have someone around who’s done this sort of thing before, so they can help you out. I can’t recommend specific brands, though; you’re on your own for that (or some other doper’ll come along with links).

#4

Well, as far as looking at hardware reviews and what not are concerned, http://www.tomshardware.com. http://www.firingsquad.com (sometimes), http://www.anandtech.com, and http://www.sharkyextreme.com are all excellent resources for this. As far as personal advice is concerned (note: i’m going to repeat some of what ultrafiller said, because it needs mentioning more than once)… first off, it really helps (if you haven’t done this before) to have a friend or two around who is just willing to help you along. Although motherboard manuals and what not are helpful, no manual can help you through the plethora of various technical issues that may come up, not to mention all of the particular hardware you are using. An excellent resource for actually buying the hardware is http://www.pricewatch.com, it allows you to normally find rather good places to buy the hardware. As far as the actual hardware is concerned, these days, it’s almost always best to buy something at least half-way name brand. You will pay a bit more for these type of components, but there is nothing more disappointing than hardware that either doesn’t work well, simply isn’t very compatible or suddenly quits working all together. The exception to this rule is 3.5" floppy drives and most network cards/modems. As far as RAID and what not is concerned, it’s always an option, but I don’t know if it’s really justifiable to get this because you pay a premium to have it included in a motherboard. Simply put, most people survive just fine, having two seperate physical hard drives. Besides, the technical and configuration issues of using a RAID setup can be quite daunting. As far as cdrw drives are concerned, anything above 16x would probably be suitable. However, you’ll notice once you go past that point in speed, the amount of time you are “saving” is pretty small. Finally, be sure to get lots of memory (the correct type for your particular processor and motherboard, of course), memory is practically free these days. Good luck.

#5

RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive/Identical Disks) is relatively new to poersonal computers, though it’s proven its worth in servers and whatnot. I’ve just installed a RAID motherboard in my own machine; the Soyo Dragon+. The RAID capability was actually a major deciding factor in choosing this particular board.

I’m not sure how much background I should give, but you described yourself as a “novice”, so here goes:

For microcomputers, hard drive interfaces have boiled down to 2 seperate yet proven approaches: SCSI and IDE. The latter is far more common, with motherboards of the last 10 years having the necessary support built right in. SCSI required additional equipment, typically an extra card, unless you were willing to spend the big bucks and get a motherboard with an integrated SCSI chip.

An IDE “channel” can only have 2 devices hooked up to it, designated “Master” and “Slave”. These devices are almost always hard drives or CD/DVD drives. SCSI is more flexible. It can have (typically) up to 7 devices attached, covering a wider range on functions, including scanners, printers, etc.

When corporate computers acting as file servers (i.e. the computer that stays in a locked air-conditioned room where only the nerds can get at it), hooking up several identical hard drives to a single SCSI channel proved to be highly desirable. There are several RAID configurations, the two most common of which are:

RAID 0: Two or more drives of the same size are “striped”, that is, a chunk of data is broken up so part gets written on sactor X of drive 1, part gets written on sector X of drive 2, part gets written on sectorX* on drive n, etc. Ideally, all the drives would be read at the same time and the retreival of the date would be much faster than if all of it was stored on a single drive. Three 10-gig drives would be viewed as a single 30-gig drive. The main advantage was speed. The main disadvantage is that is one drive in the “array” failed, you were screwed, because your data would have this big gap in it.

RAID 1: Two drives of the same size are “mirrored”, meaning the ifnromation that gets written to one also gets written to the other. Main advantage: security. If a drive failed, your data was still intact. On many servers, you could even remove out the malfunctioning disk and replace it while the machine was still on (“hot-swapping”). Down time is minimal. The main disadvatange is cost, since two 10-gig drives are effectivley acting as only one 10-gig drive.

There are other RAID configurations that involve combinations of stirping and mirroring, and/or different numbers of drives, etc.

SCSI had a lock on RAID until some manufacturers started producing IDE RAID cards. You could pop one of these into your computer, hook up two identical (and relatively inexpensive) IDE hard drives to it, and set up a RAID 0 or 1. Lately, some motherboard manufacturers have started integrating these chips, so you need not use up a PCI slot.

The Soyo Drgaon+ seems typical in this regard. I have a total of four IDE channels: IDE1, IDE2, IDE3 and IDE4. Of these, IDE3 and IDE4 are controlled my an onboard Promise IDE RAID chip. IDE1 and IDE2 remain conventional interfaces. The arrangement I have chosen is as follows:

IDE1- Master:Quantum Fireball 20GIG Slave: none
IDE2- Master:Samsung CD-RW Slave: Phillips DVD
IDE3- Master:Western Digital 40GIG Slave:none
IDE4- Master:Western Digital 40GIG Slave:none

CD-drives apparantly can’t be put on the Promise RAID interface but I could have chosen to treat IDE3 and IDE4 like nomral interfaces and had 8 independent IDE devices. Changing this is a matter of a jumper, a BIOS change and some software. Not a big deal.

When I bought this board, I also bought a 40GIG drive idential to the Western Digital already in my possession. You can set up RAIDs with non-identical drives, but somewhere along the way you’ll be wasting capacity. I plan to use this system for video editing, which requires heavy-duty drive use. The testing software that came with my video capture card reports the following speed tests:

C-Drive (my 20GIG non-RAID drive)
non-RAID drive: writes 25.65 MB with a low of 3,2 and a high of 60,.8
reads at 20,08 with a low of 2.7 and a high of 32.3

uld be missing.advantage is speed

Raid drive: Writes at 10.4 MS/.second to 73.9, with an average of 61.41
Reads averga 56.11, with a low of 6.4 and a high of 68.8

#6

ARGH! I hit <TAB> at the wrong time and submitted while I was still editing, making it look like my medication suddenly wore off. Please ignore above post.

RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive/Identical Disks) is relatively new to personal computers, though it’s proven its worth in servers and whatnot. I’ve just installed a RAID motherboard in my own machine; the Soyo Dragon+. The RAID capability was a major factor in choosing this particular board.

I’m not sure how much background I should give, but you described yourself as a “novice”, so here goes:

For microcomputers, hard drive interfaces have boiled down to 2 seperate yet proven approaches: SCSI and IDE. The latter is far more common, with motherboards of the last 10 years having the necessary support built right in. SCSI requires additional equipment, typically an extra card, unless you were willing to spend the big bucks and get a motherboard with an integrated SCSI chip.

An IDE “channel” can only have 2 devices hooked up to it, designated “Master” and “Slave”. These devices are almost always hard drives or CD/DVD drives. SCSI is more flexible. It can have (typically) up to 7 devices attached, covering a wider range of functions, including scanners, printers, etc.

When corporate computers act as file servers (i.e. the computers that stay in a locked air-conditioned room where only the nerds can get at it), hooking up several identical hard drives to a single SCSI channel proved to be highly desirable. There are several RAID configurations, the two most common of which are:

RAID 0: Two or more drives of the same size are “striped”, that is, a chunk of data is broken up so part gets written on sector X of drive 1, part gets written on sector X of drive 2, part gets written on sectorX* on drive n, etc. Ideally, all the drives would be read at the same time and the retreival of the data would be much faster than if all of it was stored on a single drive. Three 10-gig drives would be viewed as a single 30-gig drive. The main advantage was speed, often several times faster than normal performance. The main disadvantage is that if one drive in the array failed, you were screwed, because your data would have this big gap in it.

RAID 1: Two drives of the same size are “mirrored”, meaning the information that gets written to one also gets written to the other. Main advantage: security. If one drive failed, your data was still intact. On many servers, you could even remove the malfunctioning disk and replace it while the machine was still on (“hot-swapping”). Down time is minimal. The main disadvatange is cost, since two 10-gig drives are effectivley acting as only one 10-gig drive.

There are other RAID configurations that involve combinations of stirping and mirroring, and/or different numbers of drives, etc.

SCSI had a lock on RAID until some manufacturers started producing IDE RAID cards. You could pop one of these into your computer, hook up two identical (and relatively inexpensive) IDE hard drives to it, and set up a RAID 0 or 1. SCSI drives and cards were (and still are) expensive and since scanners and other equipment have shifted to USB, the technological advantage of SCSI over IDE has narrowed greatly. Lately, some motherboard manufacturers have started integrating these IDE RAID chips, so you need not use up a PCI slot, reducing the advantage even more. The March 2002 issue of Maximum PC contains an article comparing a top-of-the-line SCSI drive with its IDE counterpart and concludes that while SCSI still has its place in servers, they’re overkill and overpriced for desktops. IDE won the contest.

The Soyo Drgaon+ seems typical for an integrated motherboard. I have a total of four IDE channels: IDE1, IDE2, IDE3 and IDE4. Of these, IDE3 and IDE4 are controlled by an onboard Promise IDE RAID chip. IDE1 and IDE2 remain conventional interfaces. The arrangement I have chosen is as follows:

IDE1- Master:Quantum Fireball 20GIG Slave: none
IDE2- Master:Samsung CD-RW Slave: Phillips DVD
IDE3- Master:Western Digital 40GIG Slave:none
IDE4- Master:Western Digital 40GIG Slave:none

CD-drives apparantly can’t be put on the Promise RAID interface but I could have chosen to treat IDE3 and IDE4 like normal interfaces and had 8 independent IDE devices. Changing this is a matter of a jumper, a BIOS change and some software. Not a big deal.

When I bought this board, I also bought a 40GIG drive identical to the Western Digital already in my possession. You can set up RAIDs with non-identical drives, but somewhere along the way you’ll be wasting capacity. I plan to use this system for video editing, which requires heavy-duty drive use. The testing software that came with my video capture card reports the following speed tests:

C-Drive (my 20GIG non-RAID drive)
Writes 25.65 MB/sec with a low of 3,2 and a high of 60.8
Reads 20.08 with a low of 2.7 and a high of 32.3

V-Drive (my 80GIG striped drive, consisting of two 40GIGs mashed together)
Writes 61.41MB/sec, with a low of 10.4 and a high of 73.9
Reads 56.11, with a low of 6.4 and a high of 68.8

The performance of the RAID on average is more than twice that of the C-drive alone. There are a few minor factors to consider, such as the C-drive containing my WinXP files, etc, but those are fairly trivial.

If you plan to write a lot of CDs, though, you don’t really need RAID at all. Even a slowpoke hard drive will easily outpace a snappy CD-burner. The factors to look for on a burner are high write speed (obviously) and BURN (Buffer UnderRuN) Proofing. This feature allows CD-writers a bit of flexibility and make it far less likely that you will pile up a stack of useless “coasters” because somebody in your house flicked a light-switch and made the computer hiccup.

#7

Sounds like RAID won’t really be necessary for my purposes.

I have warned all my friends who are geekier than myself (there are a few, surprisingly) that I’ll be undertaking this endeavor, and they’ve pledged their support. Plus, of course, there’s always the SDMB!

The plan is to strip my current computer for parts, including the CD-RW drive and the GeForce 2 video card I added recently. I’m also going to stick with my current monitor for now.

More specific questions:
1.) Is a 300-watt power supply enough, or should I go for 350?
2.) Windows XP: Home or Pro?

Dr. J

#8

I second ultrafilter’s suggestion - if you’ve never built one of these before, find your favorite geek friend, and tell 'em you’ll buy the pizza if they’ll hang out with you while you build it. There are a number of details that can be a bit confusing the first time you deal with them (jumper settings, BIOS settings, etc) and some experience is useful. During my first motherboard installation, I didn’t notice that because of the location of the battery, one of the cards mashed down on the battery when it was fully inserted into its slot. After returning to the store with complaints that their board was defective, they checked my installation and informed me what I had done. I smiled sheepishly and paid the board installation cost. Fortunately, no permanent harm was done. But it could have been ugly. And expensive.

#9

I’ve built one PC and my advice is to read the manual that comes with the motherboard (or at least the quick start instructions) and do it on a day when you don’t have anything else planned, take your time and be methodical about it. Also, have some place secure to put all the little screws that you’re gonna have.

I’d go for the larger power supply now, because if you do an upgrade of some of your components later on and they require you to put in a larger power supply you’ll wish you’d done it when you had everything out of the case.

As for the Windows version, the general consensus on the boards is that XP Pro is the way to go. Personally, I’ll stick with 98SE until they release Lindows.

#10

ultrafilter said:

This is the one bit of advice I’ve got to disagree with. It really boils down to personal opinion, I suppose. . . Cases are definately not interchangeable. I think a case is a little bit like an investment. If you get a good one, you can use it for years. I’ve built many computers, and a good case can make a big difference on the ease of the build as well as the future upgradeability of the computer.

Getting a case that looks good is important, of course. But it should also be sturdily built and roomy. I’d recommend that you get the biggest case you can deal with. I don’t mean you have to get a full tower, but it’s really annoying to run out of space for an extra drive when you want to upgrade. Larger cases also allow much better airflow, and therefore better cooling. A really good case doesn’t have to be all that expensive either.

I really like cases by Antec, Chieftec, Addtronics and Enermax. These brands often include a good quality power supply as well (generic cases often come with a sub-par PS, which may cause you problems later on). One place you can check out for these cases is www.newegg.com . I’d also second the recommendation for a larger power supply. I’d go with at least a 350 watt now. I just checked and they have a nice, black Antec full tower case with a 400 Watt PS for $118. Of course, that may be overkill for you, but it represents the top-end of normal cases. Just remember, if you pay a little bit more here, you’ll have an easier time building, cooling, and upgrading your new computer.

Note: I have no affiliation with any of the companies mentioned above.

#11

Dr. J,

Okay then. Here are something you need.

Mobo (motherboard): Check Tom’s Hardware site for reviews. I suggest getting one based on AMD’s 760 chipset, SiS 735 chipset, or VIA’s new KT333 chipset. VIA’s older KT266/A chipset had a problem with IDE devices so they can’t operate at full speed. I am not sure if this problem has been solved.

Memory: definitely go for DDR SDRAM now. 256MB is a good amount to have.

Cooler: a big motherly one would be good. Check out this guide.

Case: a big one is better than a small one. Other features to look for are: fan in front, two fans in back, and easy to open side panel.

Power supply: the bigger the merrier. 400W is a good choice :smiley:

CD burner: the feature you look for is “buffer underrun protection.” Since you want to burn lots of CD speed is important too. Plextor is the best.

HDD: just make sure the one you get is at least 7200rpm with a large buffer.

OS: use the one from your old computer. Unless it’s W95 in which case you want to move to W98. Avoid Windows Me like the plague.

#12
      • RAID is only for if you know you’ll need more than four drives on the computer, not counting 3.5 floppies: inside a “regular” PC, there’s only enough cables to hook up up to 2 floppy drives, and up to 4 IDE drives that can be mix-and-match: HD’s, CD’s, DVD’s, CD-RW’s, DVD-re-writables, internal Zip’s, anything that is specified as IDE.
  • Running RAID tends to have more problems that IDE setups. Because of that and the higher price for RAID mobos/cards, most people avoid going the RAID route if they can, and it is not a popular retail option.
  • I’d also say to go with a 400W power supply. -And DDR memory, please.
  • I’d also say, with some places, if you buy the mobo and processor at the same time, you can have them test the combo (including RAM, if you ordered that also) for a couple bucks. Which is a Good Thing, worth the minor price. - DougC
#13

I started a similar thread and I am still thinking what to do… I hate shopping for anything and I usually get to a point where I just walk out with the shoes I was trying on at that moment that I got tired of thinking about it. Later the shoes don’t fit me. I am fast approaching that point with this computer purchase. At any rate, it seems Mobos are so similar that it is like buying a car and judging by the ashtrays.

A couple of boards I am looking at are the MSI K7T266 Pro (MS-6380) which has the nifty feature that one of the USB ports allows direct connection to another computer to network. Not any big deal but one of those little things that makes it a bit different. I use a USB network with my laptop so that means I could just plug my laptop directly into the home computer.

Another board I am looking at is the Epox EP-8KHA+ . . Both are for AMD XP and use DDR Ram.

#14

I think I’m going with the Epox EP-8KHA+, as I’ve seen it recommended on several boards. I’m going to find a place that will sell it to me along with an Athlon 1800+ CPU as a tested bundle. I figure the extra few bucks will save me a headache or two.

Dr. J

#15

Don’t forget to get a hefty cooler, and a large computer case the permits ample airflow plus at least one fan in the front and one fan in the back. Preferably, these fans should be big so they don’t have to rotate fast.

#16

What do you think of the Nvidia Nforce 420D chipset?
I am thinking about useing a MSI mobo with the 420D chipset on a new machine I am going to build soon.

Peace
LIONsob

#17

I want to upgrade to Windows XP. I am currently running Win 98 on the computer I bought from Gateway four years ago. A friend of mine who recently built a computer said that he tried to put his existing OS on it, and he couldn’t; it was apparently proprietary to the brand of computer he had before.

Here’s my question–if I buy an upgrade version of XP, will I have to have 98 installed on the computer before I can install it? Or will I just have to have a product code?

I’ve ordered everything but the hard drive and the OS. I should be up and running next weekend.

Dr. J

#18

you just have to present the 98 disc at some point in the installation, if its not installed.
and besides all of the good advice posted above, I’d just like to chime in recommending an ASUS motherboard. They are widely considered the best motherboards and I have had no trouble with them. They’ll be more expensive though.

and go for a Dual-Head video card. I would recommend a Matrox G450 or G550, because of Matrox’s renowned 2d image quality, but they are not the best for the newer games.

#19

Does it matter if it’s a “for distribution with a new PC” 98 disc?

Would an OEM version be a good idea?

Dr. J

#20

LIONsob,

I have found this comparison article the THG:

So you may want to look at some other chipsets instead.
Dr. J,

The licensing issue is in a grey area but it is my belief that you own the rights to use that copy of Windows 98 on any computer that you may own, as long as you just have it on one computer.

My suggestion is you should try to see if W98 works on your new rig before slurging for something else. An alternative is Free/OpenSource software.
sim0n,

My experience with ASUS boards is mixed. Right now it’s hard to justify their cost.