Given the speeds that Jets fly. Is it possible for a pilot to see a drone? Would something that small even show up on radar?
Size is one issue. But also speed. For example, Suppose the jet is 30 times faster than an object it passes. Could it even target that object? Seems like the jet would pass that object in the blink of an eye.
Just because it’s a drone doesn’t mean it is tiny, for example the Predator drone has nearly a 15m wingspan.
That video is pretty conclusive. 
I was thinking of the smaller drones. Shoebox size. They are useful for video coverage of an area. Maybe even listening in to conversations. Depending on how stealthily they are. They could easily avoid radar?
I guess a long range drone has to be pretty big. Fuel storage and any weapons would require it.
It sounds like you’re mixing up toys and military UAVs. Toys are tiny, low, and slow; a military UAV like the MQ-9 has a wingspan of 65 feet, a maximum takeoff weight over 10,000 lbs, a top speed of 300MPH, and a service ceiling of 50,000 feet.
:o That big? I had no idea they were so big. Its hard getting a size perspective from watching video on tv. I’ve seen drones locally with 2 to 3 foot wing spans. Realtors use them to film homes they want to sell. My local tv station used one to film storm damage after a tornado.
thank you for clearing that up. I’ll probably never see a military drone up close. What you describe is bigger than a small Cessna.
This.
Commercial airline pilots in the US regularly report illegal drone activity near airports, all too often with increasing near hits. The small size of these drones, even with the approaching landing speed of the commercial aircraft, makes these encounters very dangerous.
I’m sure one of our SDMB pilots will be along shortly and illustrate how dangerous a bird strike into an engine on takeoff or landing and compare its equivalent with a drone.
There are some toy-sized military UAVs like the RQ-11, which would also be used to take aerial pictures of houses. However, the military is less interested in getting pretty glossy shots for a listing site, and more interested in finding out where the angry men with guns and RPGs are hiding in that house. These are probably too small and too slow to be targeted by jet fighters, however they’re also low and slow enough to be easily shot down with small arms.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, the RQ-4 Global Hawk is the largest UAV (AFAIK), and with a 40 meter wingspan and 14 ton gross weight is a pretty large aircraft by any standard. It’s essentially the unmanned equivalent to the U-2 spy plane. It could be engaged and destroyed like any other aircraft, though since it can fly at 60,000 feet I believe it would be out of reach of many older planes and less sophisticated missiles.
FWIW, the pilot doesn’t have to “see” anything. Many weapons can destroy targets beyond the pilot’s visual range, such as the AIM-7F and AIM-120.
And having seen UAVs up close, I can say they do come in all shapes and sizes. I remember one time I had to yell at a soldier for walking under a UAV rather than around it. It was not exactly tiny.
The unmanned vehicles mentioned in the quote in the OP are Predator-sized drones. The could easily be found and shot down by a fighter aircraft, and the UAV’s operators would quite likely have no idea why their airplane just exploded or fell from the sky unless an AWACS aircraft or some other radar system showed the enemy fighter approaching.
Even UAVs as small as the RQ-7 (400 lbs, 14’ wingspan, 8 hrs endurance) have no chance against a fighter. Smaller than that, then the drone is likely incapable of flying too far from its operator and would likely stay at much lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to ground fire if spotted or detected on something like a counter-mortar radar.
There are stories in the news right now about Russian fighters intercepting Predators over Syria.
Are there drones that are equipped with radar and air-to-air missiles yet?
F-35 pilots will be manning–or will have available–mini guns, just like in the old rat-a-tat-tat days, not only for their (highly debated) use in ground support, but as a defense against smallish UAVs attacking in packs, aka swarms.
There are plenty of drones equipped with radar, but the radar tends to be the type useful for tracking ground targets, not air-to-air combat.
I’m aware of efforts more than a decade ago to put a Sidewinder missile on a Predator drone, but that didn’t amount to much.
But to the heart of your question, it will probably be decades before drones become an air-to-air weapon that isn’t a joke. The idea that we are on the verge of autonomous unmanned combat fighter drones is simply science fiction. I have no doubt it will be done some day, but manned fighters will rule the skies for at least another generation.
Pretty well covered already. UAVs range in size from 1’ toy helicopter-gizmos to things the size and speed of RJ airliners.
As a general rule a fighter aircraft can engage anything bigger than about 10 feet across and above about 500 feet above the ground.
The very high altitude capability of some big UAVs is a hindrance to attack but not a sanctuary for them. A fighter might not be able to get to 60,000’, but it can sure fire at 40,000 going uphill at serious speed/angle and the missile will get there just fine. The missile won’t maneuver well in the end game due to the very thin air, but it’s also attacking an almost completely non-maneuvering target.
I personally have not seen a hobbyist drone while I’m flying yet. I know folks who have. But I have encountered innumerable birds over the years and squashed a dozen or so in various encounters.
In general for bird-sized targets we spot them at most 10 seconds before passing, and more typically 5 seconds. It would not be practical for a fighter to visually locate or fight with such a device. By the time a fighter pilot saw it he/she’d be past it since compared to fighter speeds the small devices are effectively stationary even going at their max speed.
I strongly doubt any extant fighter radar system could track something like that. The issue is that the radar would be optimized for larger targets and would be designed to ignore such minor returns as part of its efforts to avoid detecting the ground, birds, and weather. The filters could be modified easily enough, but at the expense of picking up a lot of other garbage targets. All in all that doesn’t seem practical IMO.
There are systems being designed and sold today which are adaptations of ground-based air defense for countering the toy-sized and model-sized UAVs. Some combination of the search & fire control radar used for gun systems or short range ground to air missiles, plus either jammers, lasers, or other EM weapons to disrupt or damage the target.
One promising tech will track he control signals back to the operator. Which has obvious law enforcement advantages.
Military aircraft regularly pick up sailplanes on their radar. A composite sailplane does have a lot of metal fittings, instruments, control cables, etc…on the other hand it doesn’t have a big metal engine like a drone.
I know of one sailplane pilot that was busted for an altitude violation based on a report from an F-117. Actually I also know the FAA enforcement official that did the actual busting.
Not likely. Even a MiG-21 can reach 58,000 feet, which is more than close enough to launch a missile. And any surface to air missile built in the last, say, 40 years can reach that sort of altitude (except for maybe some mobile systems).
It’s not actually a drone, but this should still give you a good idea of what would probably happen.
I remember laughing at that when I first saw it and thinking I should make a note so I could post it here, assuming (correctly) I would find a perfect opportunity.
Well done.
I wasn’t sure about that point so I was purposefully vague about “old” and “less sophisticated”, thinking that there might be some small country with air force that lacked the capability to shoot down the RQ-4. Apparently not, since the MiG-21 is standard hardware for all the formerly-second-world militaries.
I stand corrected!